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Re: Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit

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@mickstuder wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

I see one of the infamous 47% that the right is always looking for has been outed.


Are you sure?

 

I only ask that Question because the same people who bought Romneys assertion - appear to be the exact same people who bought Trumps assertion that Mexico is going to pay for his Wall

 

 


Those who are so worried about the infamous 47% will not believe anything that doesn't justify their dislike of everyone who doesn't believe exactly as they do. Many of those who pay no income taxes make substantially more money than anyone posting here.

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Re: Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit

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@Snoopy48 wrote:

I see one of the infamous 47% that the right is always looking for has been outed.


Are you sure?

 

I only ask that Question because the same people who bought Romneys assertion - appear to be the exact same people who bought Trumps assertion that Mexico is going to pay for his Wall

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit

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Message 3 of 23

I see one of the infamous 47% that the right is always looking for has been outed.

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Re: Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit

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@GailL1 wrote:

@mickstuder 

What unfair tax benefit?   Business and Individuals have access to these - abiet somewhat different in nature.  In order to have any of these as a business or individual you have to be eligible for it - business or individual.

  • Losses (and their carry-over) - businesses or individual
  • Tax Credits and Adjustments to Income - business or individual
  • Tax expenditures - again business or individual

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/42919

 

Effects of Selected Major Tax Expenditures from 2013 to 2022


 
 
The promise
The wealthy won't benefit
“The rich will not be gaining at all with this plan.”
– President Donald Trump, Sept. 13, 2017
False
 
The middle class will be the biggest beneficiaries
“Our framework ensures that the benefits of tax reform go to the middle class, not to the highest earners.”
– President Donald Trump, Oct. 11, 2017
False
 
 

Most rich taxpayers, however, are doing much better this year.

 

The alternative-minimum tax, or AMT, dreaded by affluent Americans, lost much of its bite in the legislation.

 

The estate tax, previously paid by just two out of every 1,000 taxpayers who die, is now even easier to avoid. The law doubles the amount of wealth exempt from the levy, to $11 million for singles and $22 million for couples. The rich are already using the new limits to create dynasty trusts for generations of their descendants.

 

Trump Tax Cut.png

 


The wealthy also won a drop in the top tax rate, from 39.6 percent to 37 percent, which they can slash further if they’re business owners who qualify for the new 20 percent pass-through break.

 

If they’re corporate stockholders—and the vast majority of rich Americans are in some way—they’re also winning a big benefit from the law’s most expensive perk, the slashing of the corporate rate to 21 percent from 35 percent.

 

Overall, the Joint Committee on Taxation estimates the law delivers taxpayers who earn $1 million or more a tax cut of $37 billion in the next year alone.

 

Source - https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-tax-plan-consequences/

 

 

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit

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@gruffstuff wrote:

Have any of you ever started a business?

 

Yes, since July 26, 1978. I started by doing side jobs after work and on weekends around 1976, I bought one tool at a time with the money I made, my first truck was a 1954 Ford F-100 I bought for $ 100.,  incorporated in 1980.

 

Have you ever looked at and digested a business tax return -of any type of business.?

 

I file a 1120 S every year, and the State business tax return, along with a property tax return.

GREAT - then you can understand

 

Do you even understand taxes except for standard/ itemized deductions, exemptions or "where's my refund".?

 

Yes, it's really not that hard to understand, unless it's made hard to understand,

gross receipts minus allowed deductions equals NET profit.

Substract from that (just like on an individual return) any applicable tax credits or any losses (current and/or carry-over) within the defined limits

 

I will say here I don't use tax havens or carried interest or any of the stuff the big corporations use, I get paid $ 100, I deduct the materials, payroll, and other allowable deductions and what is left over is profit.

To my knowledge Amazon doesn't use tax havens either - they pay their taxes (if any) in all the countries where they do business - they may not move all the money back to the US - they may instead leave it in the country where the company is for further business plans.

 

Sure there are lots of tax credits available to businesses.

 

There are. 

 

Thought that was how government got them to do what they wanted - invest in new equipment, invest in green energy, hire this type of person (over another).

 

The flip of that was and should be, if you don't plow that money back into the business, in as you say,  new equipment, energy efficiency, investment into your employees, if you put that money into your pocket instead of the business, then you a top marginal rate of 91%

 

Result .......... you put the money back into the business and not in your pocket to avoid taxes. The business fulfills their part of the social contract to the society that allows them to be in business at all. Would Amazon be possible without the roads and transit infrastructure  the public built? No Amazon would not be possible, and neither would my little Mom and Pop plumbing shop.

Think you are forgetting about the Shareholders - they also get a share of whatever return - thus another business expense, at least for those who have public companies.

 

The same would be true for partnerships - the partners share in the profits.

 

Bezos get a modest salary of about $ 81,000 per year - the rest is in stock - 2017 said this was about $ 1.6 - 90% of his wealth is in Amazon stock.

 

Businesses also have start up cost - that could produce losses that can be carried over until recooped. 

 

For twenty years? 

 

If you don't make a profit three years out of five your business is a hobby, not a business.

Amazon is constantly buying companies and beginning new ones - Remember they bought Whole Foods and began a new business with it.  So some of these subsiduary companies might not have any losses but others may have many and still be in that time period.  There is not only a limit in the $$$$ amount of losses that be claimed each year (carry-over and current), there is also a time period when they expire.

 

One of the losses I read about was a tax consequence in another country - a new rule or something - that had to be paid to the other country. 

 

Do you know the difference in PROFIT and TAXABLE INCOME - doubt it !

 

Yes

 

 

Do you know anything about various business structures ?  Amazon is a really BIG company with tons of subsidiaries. 

 

 

Why, I can understand vertical integration in say a company like Toyota, they want to own the companies, the trade secrets, the supply chain that they depend on to make Toyota cars.

 

Why does Amazon need vertical integration, Amazon doesn't actually make anything, it's a market place, Amazon are traders, not a manufacturer. Sure they own places of business, they have employees, they warehouses goods and process orders of things other people make deliver.

They also develop new business ideas in selling -

They are not manufacturers is the industrial sense but new businesses and new ways of doing business are developed out of time, ideas and money.  They are a technology company specializing in ecommerce (to the extreme).

Don't know if this list is up to date - but add to that, the number of merchants that have an ecommerce agreement with them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_(company)

 

Unless illegal by nature, businesses can be devloped for many things - not just the old standard of making,repairing, selling something or having a service business.

 

 

They are also global - they may have to pay taxes in many different countries - different states too- deductible, of course. 

 

I think  money effects politics may be a global problem.


 


* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit

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Message 6 of 23

@ChasKy53 wrote:


If a company can pay it's CEO and executives $Millions$ (to the point that they become some of the richest in the world), they dang sure should be paying some taxes.

 

The Rosannadanna stuff in our tax codes that allow them to go tax free needs to be removed from the tax codes.


What do you want to remove?

Losses?

Tax Credits ?

Tax Expenditures?

 

Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos took home $1.68 million in total compensation in 2017, most of which came in the form of security and travel expenses. Bezos took a salary of $81,840, same as he drew the two years prior, and the company says he has never received any additional stock-based compensation. Because of Bezos’ low salary, Amazon’s ratio of CEO compensation compared to the median worker is 59 to one.

 

Well, that is certainly not a big compensation.

It cost lots of money to run a business - and if you can do tax planning that helps too.

Employing a disabled person or a Vet - TAX CREDIT

Untilizing Green energy via purchase of EV - TAX CREDIT

Bought a bunch of new delivery vehicles or drones - deduction

 

 

Bezos has lots of wealth - not so much comparitively speaking in cash on hand. 

Back to our Wealth Tax discussion

 

But this thread is not about Bezos - it is about Amazon and how they ended up no paying any Corporate Income taxes, in fact got a refund for a couple of years.  I can definitely see how this can happen - throwing around comments like they made this huge amount of gross profit without knowing their expenses, losses (carry-over too) or credits - is meaningless.

 

It takes money to make money.

Businesses actually don't pay taxes - they just pass taxes on in whatever service or product.

 

So what is it that you would like to take away from the tax form once Gross Profits are figured - business expenses, losses (current or carry-over within the limits), credits?

 

 


* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Message 7 of 23

@mickstuder 

What unfair tax benefit?   Business and Individuals have access to these - abiet somewhat different in nature.  In order to have any of these as a business or individual you have to be eligible for it - business or individual.

  • Losses (and their carry-over) - businesses or individual
  • Tax Credits and Adjustments to Income - business or individual
  • Tax expenditures - again business or individual

https://www.cbo.gov/publication/42919

 

Effects of Selected Major Tax Expenditures from 2013 to 2022


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Re: Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit

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Message 8 of 23

@GailL1 wrote:

@mickstuder wrote:

 


Ha ha ha - "Net Operating Loss Carryforwards" - The average full-time American Worker makes on average nationally - about $38,000 

 

If you divide Amazons 11 Trillion by 37k - my math comes out to about 300,000

 

That's 300,000 American workers income that it takes to equal Amazons

 

How much do you think each of those American Workers has to pay in US Income Taxes after they get to claim their own - "Net Operating Loss Carryforwards"

 

Answer - the exact same amount as before they applied their - net operating loss carryforwards - because working Americans dont get those or any other generous deductions or accounting tricks from.the US Tax Codes

 

In fact after the recent Trump/GOP Tax Bill - we dont even get to deduct our Mortgage Interest - Real Estate Taxes - Investment Advice - NADA

 

Just another example of how the total US Assets are coming under the control of fewer & fewer people like Bezos - because at the end of the day Amazon gets the Tax Breaks but Bezos gets the Money which has made him not only the Richest American but the Richest in the World

 

 

 

 


@mickstuder 

 

There are differences in a business tax reporting and an individual tax reporting but in many ways they are the same.

 

The figure of profit for Amazon is their GROSS Profit - their taxable profit come after all other expenses are used less any losses from current year or even what was left over from previous year(s) since there is an annual limit on the amount of loss but anything over that limit is carried over to the next year(s).

 

Accounting profit, includes all related costs of doing business.

There are several components that go into calculating accounting profit.

Gross profit is the difference between sales and cost of goods sold, or the cost of production.

Companies subtract all other expenses from gross profit to derive accounting profit. Operating expenses include rent, utilities, interest, depreciation, amortization, salaries and other day-to-day costs of running the business.

 

For you to actually see this, a very simple way, is to look at IRS Form Schedule C for sole proprietors.  Sect.III is the Gross Profit and the Net Profit is line 31.  

Once all credit adjustments are made and any losses are used - you get to their taxable profit or Accounting profit for the business - Amazon had NO Taxable Profit.

 

IRS - Form Schedule C

 

The taxable profit is reduced more by any loss - carried over or current year - which is within the limits of the loss limit - anything further is carried over to the next year(s)

 

Of course, an individual's tax return is different but there are similarities and any individual can have losses and carried over losses.  They have credits too although different than on the business return in nature.   An individual can either file using the standard deduction or itemize deductions if higher than the standard deduction.  After all of this is done, we come up with the individuals taxable profit (accounting profit)

 

I haven't had a mortgage in over a decade but mortgage interest is still deductible although there is a limit, it is a very high one, most likely only affecting the more well off - state and local taxes are still deductible up to a limit as well as medical cost as defined by the IRS.

 

Amazon and your described individual just have different numbers and different types of limits in credits, adjustments and losses and carry overs.


Yes - But wait - The Republican Controlled US Supreme Court says Businesses are entitled to the same Rights as People - how come the reverse isnt True?

 

Why because every card in the deck is stacked against the Average Working American & even more so against the Americans who have retired after working their entire lives at Real Jobs that required a person to get up everyday - leave their home & family for a minimum of 8 hours a day 5 - 6 & for some 7 days a week

 

What most Americans can't seem to comprehend is that for the most part - it's their Incumbent Elected Representatives in Congress - both Democrat & Republicans who are slowly but surely stacking the deck against them in favor of a handful of others

 

And people wonder why more & more Americans are favoring more Socialist type Social Programs - there would be no need for this shift - if there were No Unfair Tax Benefits for the Already Rich & Politically Powerful - like - "Net Operating Cost Carryforwards"

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

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Re: Amazon will pay $0 in taxes on $11,200,000,000 in profit

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Message 9 of 23

@GailL1 wrote:

Amazon hasn't paid taxes in several years and according to my reading will probably not until about 2022 or so - depending on outside stuff.

 

Better Read This -

MarketWatch 02/19/2019 - Amazon riled up the left for not paying federal taxes — and it’s in a posit...

 

Have any of you ever started a business?

Have you ever looked at and digested a business tax return -of any type of business.?

Do you even understand taxes except for standard/ itemized deductions, exemptions or "where's my refund".?

 

Sure there are lots of tax credits available to businesses.

Thought that was how government got them to do what they wanted - invest in new equipment, invest in green energy, hire this type of person (over another).

Businesses also have start up cost - that could produce losses that can be carried over until recooped. 

 

Do you know the difference in PROFIT and TAXABLE INCOME - doubt it !

Do you know anything about various business structures ?  Amazon is a really BIG company with tons of subsidiaries.  They are also global - they may have to pay taxes in many different countries - different states too- deductible, of course. 

 

The Balance 01/16/2019 - 6 Tax Credits to Reduce Your Business Taxes

 

What do you want ?  Don't like it - change the tax code and then watch companies move somewhere else. 

 

Here is a company that is trying to be the green thing - want to take away that incentive too?

GreenBiz: 02/22/2019 - Amazon shipping could be a tipping point for electric fleets

 

 


If a company can pay it's CEO and executives $Millions$ (to the point that they become some of the richest in the world), they dang sure should be paying some taxes.

 

The Rosannadanna stuff in our tax codes that allow them to go tax free needs to be removed from the tax codes.


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For the love of money many of the wealthiest would starve half of America to make more of it.


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