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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 21 of 273

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Where did I assume wrong? Alferd said "end of discussion" are you speaking for him or her or it now?

 


I am speaking for myself.

 

Am I discussing this with a "him" or "her" or "it"?

 

My opinion is that mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

Nothing else to discuss about it.


Oh yes, there is much to discuss about it. For example, there are those who equate socialism with having libraries, I believe you have opined along those lines. But we are talking about the economy.

 

I have said that I believe that the government has an important responsibility in keeping the free market free. I do not see that at socialism. 

 

So, how do you see "socialism" fitting in to the economic model?


Wrong again.

 

Both Chasky53 and alferdpacker used essentially identical words - "mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy dose of socialism"

 

Can one discuss the taste and effect of sweet iced tea or Merlot by separating the elements/ingredients and considering them separately when considering the tastes and effects of the mixtures upon humans?  

 

Of course not - not only is it impossible to consider anything other than the mixture's effects upon humans. - the result would be completely invalid were one to make an attempt to separate the elements of a mixture - make measurements and draw conclusions based upon those measurements.

 

As an easily understood example - one cannot validly examine or properly measure the action and effects of oxidation of gasoline in a reciprocating four stroke engine by considering Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen separately, and then trying to examine the metals separately.

 

Realistically, the actions and effects of a gasoline engine are much less complex than the interactions of a mixture of limited free market capitalism, socialism and human beings.

 

Another bogus attempt to make overly simplistic unequal comparisons and draw invalid conclusions.  

 

Another example of that simplistic grade school level republican/conservative "thinking" in action...

 


No, good neighbor, not "wrong again:. I have been saying that the government has an important role in keeping the free market free.

 

As always  - the extraneous. This has nothing to do with Merlot nor iced tea nor carbon nor oxygen nor hydrogen nor oxidization nor gasoline nor metals nor republican/conservative thinking. Rather it is a very basic issue - to what extent do we "socialize" the economy.

 

Any ideas??


Yes, many, however, I decline to post them.

44>dolt45
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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 22 of 273

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 

So, how do you see "socialism" fitting in to the economic model?


Try and focus on this:

 

My opinion is that mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

Nothing else to discuss about it.


Sounds like you are having a problem identifying the "socialism" element of your proper mix in the economy.

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 23 of 273

@alferdpacker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Where did I assume wrong? Alferd said "end of discussion" are you speaking for him or her or it now?

 


I am speaking for myself.

 

Am I discussing this with a "him" or "her" or "it"?

 

My opinion is that mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

Nothing else to discuss about it.


Oh yes, there is much to discuss about it. For example, there are those who equate socialism with having libraries, I believe you have opined along those lines. But we are talking about the economy.

 

I have said that I believe that the government has an important responsibility in keeping the free market free. I do not see that at socialism. 

 

So, how do you see "socialism" fitting in to the economic model?


Wrong again.

 

Both Chasky53 and alferdpacker used essentially identical words - "mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy dose of socialism"

 

Can one discuss the taste and effect of sweet iced tea or Merlot by separating the elements/ingredients and considering them separately when considering the tastes and effects of the mixtures upon humans?  

 

Of course not - not only is it impossible to consider anything other than the mixture's effects upon humans. - the result would be completely invalid were one to make an attempt to separate the elements of a mixture - make measurements and draw conclusions based upon those measurements.

 

As an easily understood example - one cannot validly examine or properly measure the action and effects of oxidation of gasoline in a reciprocating four stroke engine by considering Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen separately, and then trying to examine the metals separately.

 

Realistically, the actions and effects of a gasoline engine are much less complex than the interactions of a mixture of limited free market capitalism, socialism and human beings.

 

Another bogus attempt to make overly simplistic unequal comparisons and draw invalid conclusions.  

 

Another example of that simplistic grade school level republican/conservative "thinking" in action...

 


No, good neighbor, not "wrong again:. I have been saying that the government has an important role in keeping the free market free.

 

As always  - the extraneous. This has nothing to do with Merlot nor iced tea nor carbon nor oxygen nor hydrogen nor oxidization nor gasoline nor metals nor republican/conservative thinking. Rather it is a very basic issue - to what extent do we "socialize" the economy.

 

Any ideas??

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 24 of 273

@rk9152 wrote:

 

So, how do you see "socialism" fitting in to the economic model?


Try and focus on this:

 

My opinion is that mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

Nothing else to discuss about it.


"The only thing that man learns from history is that man learns nothing from history."
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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 25 of 273

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Where did I assume wrong? Alferd said "end of discussion" are you speaking for him or her or it now?

 


I am speaking for myself.

 

Am I discussing this with a "him" or "her" or "it"?

 

My opinion is that mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

Nothing else to discuss about it.


Oh yes, there is much to discuss about it. For example, there are those who equate socialism with having libraries, I believe you have opined along those lines. But we are talking about the economy.

 

I have said that I believe that the government has an important responsibility in keeping the free market free. I do not see that at socialism. 

 

So, how do you see "socialism" fitting in to the economic model?


Wrong again.

 

Both Chasky53 and alferdpacker used essentially identical words - "mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy dose of socialism"

 

Can one discuss the taste and effect of sweet iced tea or Merlot by separating the elements/ingredients and considering them separately when considering the tastes and effects of the mixtures upon humans?  

 

Of course not - not only is it impossible to consider anything other than the mixture's effects upon humans. - the result would be completely invalid were one to make an attempt to separate the elements of a mixture - make measurements and draw conclusions based upon those measurements.

 

As an easily understood example - one cannot validly examine or properly measure the action and effects of oxidation of gasoline in a reciprocating four stroke engine by considering Carbon, Hydrogen, and Oxygen separately, and then trying to examine the metals separately.

 

Realistically, the actions and effects of a gasoline engine are much less complex than the interactions of a mixture of limited free market capitalism, socialism and human beings.

 

Another bogus attempt to make overly simplistic unequal comparisons and draw invalid conclusions.  

 

Another example of that simplistic grade school level republican/conservative "thinking" in action...

 

44>dolt45
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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 26 of 273

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Where did I assume wrong? Alferd said "end of discussion" are you speaking for him or her or it now?

 


I am speaking for myself.

 

Am I discussing this with a "him" or "her" or "it"?

 

My opinion is that mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

Nothing else to discuss about it.


Oh yes, there is much to discuss about it. For example, there are those who equate socialism with having libraries, I believe you have opined along those lines. But we are talking about the economy.

 

I have said that I believe that the government has an important responsibility in keeping the free market free. I do not see that at socialism. 

 

So, how do you see "socialism" fitting in to the economic model?

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 27 of 273

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Where did I assume wrong? Alferd said "end of discussion" are you speaking for him or her or it now?

 


I am speaking for myself.

 

Am I discussing this with a "him" or "her" or "it"?

 

My opinion is that mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

Nothing else to discuss about it.


"The only thing that man learns from history is that man learns nothing from history."
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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 28 of 273

My apologies....I hit the post button before I changed the color of the last paragraph.  I know you will "get it", but somebody else may not, so I thought I better explain.  Anyway...governments without people are meaningless, wouldn't you agree?  So IF what our founding documents say is acceptable to you, THEN the People, no one else, not me, not you, not any group other than the People assembled have any say in the matter.  That includes groups with whatever economic ideology you happen to favor.

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 29 of 273

@nyadrn wrote:

@umbarch64 wrote:

@nyadrn wrote:

@umbarch64 wrote:

@nyadrn wrote:

>>Oh are they..  and in what way do you believe that Americans have demonstrated an opposition to capitalism?  In the booming drug trade that has made many low time criminals into American capitalists?  In their total refusal to buy buy buy from those capitalistic companies their penny wage, out of the country made goods?  

 

I find it interesting that a country that is swamped in excess spending debt, for as many excessively cheaply made products as they can get, can be seen to have demonstrated any opposition to capitalism.  As is long said.. money talks and the rest walks.  


Yeah, well, for such inequities governments are devised by the people to do what they, by themselves, cannot.  They all seem to have problems.  I suggest to you that there is a reason for it all....it's called 'unenlightened self interest'.  


Cannot is not the same as will not and I agree with the self interest.  

 

 


Cannot is NOT the same as will not.  I said what I meant and I meant what I said.  Your response implies my reasoning left something out.  Please explain what it was and why you did that .  


You said that govts are devised to do what they the people cannot.

 

Not quite.  I said, "Yeah, well, for such inequities governments are devised by the people to do what they, by themselves, cannot."  I do believe you left something out.

 

 People individually have the power to chose what to buy and who to buy it from. Govt does not supercede that, but rather take other actions.  Neither replaces the other.  

 

I think the Declaration of Independence says the People have Rights, that they, themselves, have the sole right to "institute" Governments, consent to be governed by the Government 'they' institute and whenever any "Form of Government" becomes destructive of  "these "Rights", they get to alter or abolish them as they see fit.  The People then "establish" the Constitution.  The Constitution implements the Government in detail with the force of Law.  The People most certainly have say over 'economics' as well, IF they so choose.

 

 


 

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 30 of 273

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@alferdpacker wrote:

 


 

So, shall we get back to the Finland model??


 No need - mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

End of discussion.



O.K. It's just that since you threw Finland into the discussion you might know something about it.

 

It seems that we are mostly pretty much in agreement that a free market partnered with government which insures that freedom is the best economic system.

 

I think a lot of the problem comes up in one major area - the idea of a "level playing field". Some see that as equal opportunity where others see it as equal outcome. Government can properly assure the first but not the latter.


Did you ignore this(?):

 

mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

End of discussion.


Which part? Based on your normal contribution to discussions, I assume the latter.


Of course you "assume", and you assume wrong.

 

Both parts. The first part describes an opinion/position that mixtures of limited free market capitalism and a healthy portion of socialism work best.

 

'End of dicussion' means that your question has been answered and no further discussion is necessary.

 

You ask a person's position on this and when it is given and disagrees with your position you respond with never ending claims. Can you just agree to disagree?


Where did I assume wrong? Alferd said "end of discussion" are you speaking for him or her or it now?

 

I have stated my view of the balance with regard to the economy. If we are in disagreement with that - what is your view of the balance? You know mine, if I knew yours, maybe we could agree to disagree.

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