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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 51 of 273

@BigLib wrote:

I'll keep this short since your lips get tired while reading.

 

Feel free to join the rest of us in the economic reality.

 

 


I'm sorry but I really cannot see anything remotely connected to the topic in that. Did you have something to offer to the discussion??

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 52 of 273

 


@MIseker wrote:

@I somewhat agreejimc91 wrote:

@rk9152, do you remember when we use to talk about Free Enterprise?  

 

Back in 1976 I opened my very first business with about $200 in my pocket and was full of desire  and energy and manufactured my own capital to grow my business and made a decent living for my wife an I.

 

i sold that business for a profit and went to work for a very large fortune 500 company and worked for them for about 5 years.  I then got the itch to go into business again.  

 

It was amazing to me how many new regulations had been put into place during that short time of about 11 years.  The one thing I noticed was that many things had been aimed at very large businesses which made it difficult for very small businesses to do and be able to compete.  

 

My wife which was my partner at that time said we no longer have Free enterprise but are seeing "Corporatisim" which she describes as big business and government in bed together writing law and regulation to benefit themselves.

 

Our bussiness did ok but was difficult to grow.  We sold it and I again went to work for a Fortune 100 company until I retired.

 

My point in this is it use to be fairly easy to start and grow a small business.  Today not so much.  I would like to see the Fed regulate without picking winners and loosers.  No business should be too big to fail.  In my opponion small business is the engine that drove America to the very top of the world.  Its where many of the best inventions have come from. 

 

 I somewhat agree. Regulations put in place for major businesses should not apply to smaller ones. Its the governments way of stifling small business.

 

 



In Finland, that somewhat socialist - somewhat capitalist country - over 70% of businesses are small businesses with fewer than 50 employees - perhaps they're doing something correctly there that the US should look into adopting - a thought that's certain to get the knickers of thousands and thousands of bureaucrats and other dysfunctional government functionaries seriously twisted into a knot...

 

 

44>dolt45
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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 53 of 273

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

So you believe in free market capitalism "I believe in free market capitalism." but you don't "But the government has a major role to play in that"

 

Once the government gets involved you no longer have free market capitalism. Anti-trust legislation chips away at free market capitalism as does every other regulation. Government regulations have done more to allow one to have their own business than they have stopped that business.

 

Honest people would work to change individual regulations that they see are bad rather than attacking all regulations. The current rant from the right is that all regulations are bad except those that support their need to discriminate.


Fine - I have defined my preference regarding the economy. You can put whatever label on it that makes you happy.


OK, so you don't know the definition of 'free market capitalism', fine.

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 54 of 273

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

1) If there is no alternative, what are those who do not like free market capitalism to do?

2) I am posting because I know there are alternatives. As you know, Wolff (among others) has championed them.

3) If you are convinced there is no alternative to capitalism why are you posting on this topic?


 

 I am laughing now, becaude I know for a fact that you don't have
reading comprehension issues. but simply that  your posts wants to divert and confuse the issues.
I am not going to re post what I said, so, I suggest that perhaps you were reading too quickly and didn't see what I wrote.


 


Possibly you could clarify your meaning in, "Alternatives to capitalism we may say is the opposite of Capitalism or we may say that Capitalism has no alternatives". 


Perhaps you could read rker's post beyond the first two paragraphs. She clarified it very well in the rest of her post.


Perhaps you should let 321 speak for herself.


She did, you ignored it.

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 55 of 273

@I somewhat agreejimc91 wrote:

@rk9152, do you remember when we use to talk about Free Enterprise?  

 

Back in 1976 I opened my very first business with about $200 in my pocket and was full of desire  and energy and manufactured my own capital to grow my business and made a decent living for my wife an I.

 

i sold that business for a profit and went to work for a very large fortune 500 company and worked for them for about 5 years.  I then got the itch to go into business again.  

 

It was amazing to me how many new regulations had been put into place during that short time of about 11 years.  The one thing I noticed was that many things had been aimed at very large businesses which made it difficult for very small businesses to do and be able to compete.  

 

My wife which was my partner at that time said we no longer have Free enterprise but are seeing "Corporatisim" which she describes as big business and government in bed together writing law and regulation to benefit themselves.

 

Our bussiness did ok but was difficult to grow.  We sold it and I again went to work for a Fortune 100 company until I retired.

 

My point in this is it use to be fairly easy to start and grow a small business.  Today not so much.  I would like to see the Fed regulate without picking winners and loosers.  No business should be too big to fail.  In my opponion small business is the engine that drove America to the very top of the world.  Its where many of the best inventions have come from. 

 

 I somewhat agree. Regulations put in place for major businesses should not apply to smaller ones. Its the governments way of stifling small business.

 

 


So it begins.
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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 56 of 273

Out here in the real world, economies that are a mixture of capitalism and socialism are more functional - the economies of the nations are healthy, their citizens are healthier, happier and better educated - better places to live...

 

What countries?

Finland

Norway

Denmark

Sweden

Canada

Belgium

 

 

Yeah - we know - you are fanatically humping free market capitalism with as few controls as possible.

 

There's a problem - the vast majority of your fellow American citizens are opposed to your ideas.

 

In short - just like the whacko Birchers were ejected from the ranks of logical, rational, and responsible conservatism, and just like that infamous whack-job Goldwater's dingbat ideas automatically put him out of any kind of serious contention - the majority of Americans will never agree with your positions.

 

Those countries are succeses.

trump's ideas will end up being an abject failure.

44>dolt45
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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 57 of 273

@BigLib wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@BigLib wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

Meanwhile, any chance we can move off of "kudoes for insults" and consider any viable alternatives to capitalism??


And when are you going to accept the fact that alternatives are too black or white definitions on any economic philosophy.
Alternatives to capitalism we may say is the opposite of Capitalism or we may say that Capitalism has no alternatives. 
Whatever you happen to believe.
I personally believe that  neither Capitalism or socialism are the economic philosophies on their own that we should follow. I believe that a mixture of those two economic philosophies are probably the more palatable solution. or explanation to your question of alternatives to capitalism.

 

1) If there is no alternative, what are those who do not like free market capitalism to do?

2) I am posting because I know there are alternatives. As you know, Wolff (among others) has championed them.

3) If you are convinced there is no alternative to capitalism why are you posting on this topic?


 


Where, in any of what rker posted, did you get the idea that she's "convinced there is no alternative to capitalism"??

 

That "great wisdom" must not employ much reading comprehension.

 Alternatives to capitalism we may say is the opposite of Capitalism or we may say that Capitalism has no alternatives. 

 

Do you have anything to offer on the topic?

 


 


Is there an alternative to capitalism you'd like to try, rk?

 

 


No.


Then you just reiterated what rker said. You're a capitalism or bust kind of person. She stated she's down for a mix of capitalism and socialism. Neither one of yas is any more right than the other, because it's an opinion. Not sure why you had to give her such grief. Not everyone is attacking you.

 

Myself, I'm in for a mix as well. I like the government controlling the roads, and the skies, and telling companies you gotta put on the label what you're putting in the product, and making our cars safer, and approving the drugs we take, and making sure the banks aren't gambling with our money, and making sure kids have a chance to learn, and clean water, clean air, and inspecting the restaurants we eat at and the grocery stores we buy food from, making sure there aren't sick, hungry people laying in the streets, cops, firefighters, EMTs, and so on.

 

I don't think the government needs to be making my blue jeans, or my shampoo, or my cat's food, or my tires, my vacuum cleaner, the chinese food we ordered in tonight, my new gazing ball or the UPS truck that brought it today, and so on.

 

Where do you fall in that spectrum, rk?

 

 


I have posted this numerous times and I'll try again - I believe in free market capitalism. The government has a major role to play in that by assuring the freedom of the free market. Anti-trust legislation is a good example.

 

As you have seen in the video (if you watched it) the Socialism spokesperson ("Bircher" to those who didn't bother to watch it and like to just throw words out) sees government as far more involved in the economy.


Let's see if we can move past all the equivocation esperanto language.

 

You like anti-trust laws. Ok. Is that all you like?

 

It's fairly safe to conclude you would not want government controlling every aspect of living. I wouldn't, either. Are you good with, say, municipal water supplies and sewers, trash collection, road maintenance?

 

Are you alright with government regulating the safety of the cars we drive at 70mph toward one another? And the drugs we take. And where toxic waste gets dump (I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want it dumped in your driveway).

 

We hear a lot from conservatives that regulations are killing business. Which regulations are those? Because with all the jobs added during Obama's administration, and that trend has continued into Trump's administration, it's hard to believe business is dying when so many are getting new jobs.

 

There's not much point in discussing the video. You don't agree with Wolff's point of view, and no one here has embraced it full-on, either. So all that's left is discussing the reality we live in now.

 

 


"There's not much point in discussing the video". And yet here you are with one more "mile longer". You know, there is no requirement that a poster must respond to posts they see as "not much point in discussing".

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 58 of 273

@Roxanna35 wrote:

I have read and heard a lot about Richard Wolff. I cannot agree with the statement that the man is a John Bircher, on the contrary, you can call him a communist but a Bircher?  sorry no.
As a professon he has explained what is Socialism, an economic philosophy that has been maligned in this country for generations.
Socialism is not communism. I doubt that many understand the distinctions.
This thread asks the question  to provide an alternative to Capitalism
I have provided my personal opinion after having at least researched somewhat what is capitalism and socialism.
For years I always had the notion that both economic philosophies were passe.
and that neither represented the panacea that they both touted.
But not knowledable enough I don't like to throw the bassinet and the baby at the same time.
Both philosophies have merit, and both philosophies have bad points, but if we had the mentality to be able to combine the best of the two, that would be my answer to the questions posted by the poster.

The alternative to capitalism is the union of socialism and capitalism taking the best of both  philosophies.


Here is something you might find interesting - 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9Whccunka4

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 59 of 273

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

1) If there is no alternative, what are those who do not like free market capitalism to do?

2) I am posting because I know there are alternatives. As you know, Wolff (among others) has championed them.

3) If you are convinced there is no alternative to capitalism why are you posting on this topic?


 

 I am laughing now, becaude I know for a fact that you don't have
reading comprehension issues. but simply that  your posts wants to divert and confuse the issues.
I am not going to re post what I said, so, I suggest that perhaps you were reading too quickly and didn't see what I wrote.


 


Possibly you could clarify your meaning in, "Alternatives to capitalism we may say is the opposite of Capitalism or we may say that Capitalism has no alternatives". 


Perhaps you could read rker's post beyond the first two paragraphs. She clarified it very well in the rest of her post.


Perhaps you should let 321 speak for herself.

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Re: Alternate to Capitalism

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Message 60 of 273

@Snoopy48 wrote:

So you believe in free market capitalism "I believe in free market capitalism." but you don't "But the government has a major role to play in that"

 

Once the government gets involved you no longer have free market capitalism. Anti-trust legislation chips away at free market capitalism as does every other regulation. Government regulations have done more to allow one to have their own business than they have stopped that business.

 

Honest people would work to change individual regulations that they see are bad rather than attacking all regulations. The current rant from the right is that all regulations are bad except those that support their need to discriminate.


Fine - I have defined my preference regarding the economy. You can put whatever label on it that makes you happy.

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