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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 101 of 137

I prefer the 16 year old to the 12 year old.  Its much smoother even though it may cost more. The 16 year old is to die for...

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 102 of 137

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:


people who dont understand how manufacturing works always wonder. The reason you wonder is because the example you offer isnt realistic. no one else thinks it is either.


Of course it is not realistic, yet there are some posters who see that as the ideal end result. My question isn't about the value of the end result but how you get there.

 

This, as you know, is an offshoot from the one about Marxism. And that was his big flaw - he knew where he (like some posters) wanted to be but not how to get there.


Those posters a certainly not on this board. I have not seen one person speak for what you portray, and if someone does drop me a note in the mail. Not one person here is for a total collectivism, or marxism. Someone is painting air castles to shoot at.

 

So it begins.
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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 103 of 137

What idiot would want a business structure like that? No Progressive ever would, I can assure you. 

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 104 of 137

@sp362 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

The issue is the average CEO whose pay is 335 times that of their workers.  They do deserve more, but 335 times is ridiculous.  The top of society are getting ahead at the determent of the average worker and, in the process, destroying the middle class.  That is the problem that needs to be solved.


No, that is your issue. There are others who see such a corporate environment as ideal.

 

As to your issue - fine, how do you fix it?? Shall we have all wages (and prices?) government regulated?


Well, in Germany the CEOs make about 145 times as much and in Japan it is about 70 times as much.  So, to maximize profits, maybe all of these Publicly held companies should go overseas?  I don't how you can consider it ideal, just take a look at what has happened and what is happening to the middle class.  In 1965 the CEO to worker pay ratio was about 20 to 1. 


Fine - I understand where you want us to be, how do we get there?

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 105 of 137

@sp362 wrote:


How would you know?  Do you think because people have different opinions that they couldn't be successful in the work force.  I for one, was an executive (never at the CEO level) and really got tired of seeing companies trying to make profits and the CEO make a larger bonus by cutting the wages of their lowest level workers.  If you believe that corporations are bastions of efficiency and do everything correct and perfectly, you have not lived in the real world.


You totally miss the point. It has nothing to do with the politics of the individual in the work force. The issue was how do the workers create that "Boss"-less, CEO-less, stockholder-less corporation in which no one benefits from the labor of the workers.

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 106 of 137

@rk9152 wrote:

 


Gee, any company that succeeds on it's own without government intervention is fine with me. As to anything different, I think that is great. As an example, we both agree that Mondragon was a great experiment that worked. It, however, was not government action - the only thing I disagree with.  And  who in this post has called for government intervention? I am afraid that you may have misunderstood the posters. and yes the Mondragon example has proven that such an organization can flourish even with globalization.

 

This topic comes up due to the call for some posters for the government to intervene and change the current situation - you know, the hatred for the 1%ers, Plutocrats, Oligarchs, Uberrich, etc.  Frankly I don't care about the 1% or the Plutocrats , Oligarchs,Uberrich,  those are simply labels.
We are suppose to be discussing  The Widget Corp  and how other styles of corporations could be successful also. so, again, don't bring issues that I have not seen anyone even mentioning.


 

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 107 of 137

@myexper wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

As I was saying…...there are those who see the ideal  industrial situation as composed of “workers’ co-ops” - no “bosses”, no Execs, no shareholders. In other words, no one gaining benefit from the work of the workers except the workers.

 

Let’s see how that would work. Let’s consider the “All American Widget Corp.”. It is a successful niche business provided a constant stream of products wanted by the consumer. It has 200 employees who are well paid but also has those other folks so the workers do not share the total profits, others take some. To have established the “workers’ paradise” the business would have had to start differently than it did with it's founder and investors. Back then, those 200 hundred workers would have had to get together and see the market for widgets and decide to form their co-op. Then they would have needed a factory. So, they would have had to find the needed group of about 75 construction workers of varying skills all banded together with no management. The builders would have to find non-corporate material providers and, for delivery, non-corporate truckers driving non-corporate trucks. Then, of course, the necessary machinery and raw material becomes an issue.

 

Well, two and a half years later, they are up and running and shipping their product off to independent (non-corporate) retailers. And all is well in the workers paradise.


Ya gotta wonder though, during those two and a half years how did they eat and put shoes on their children. And where did they get the money to pay for the factory construction, equipment and supplies?


No ... "Ya gotta wonder" if your first assumption was not true:

" It has 200 employees who are well paid  ...." 

 

Your nice story falls all apart if the 200 employees were NOT well paid rk ..... and especially if those employees were not well paid because the business's founder and investors decided to keep most all of the revenue created by the business.

 All would not be "well" nor any "paradise for the workers".

 

And therein lies the fallacy of your argument .... it's all based on an enormously risky first assumption!


How do you know what the employees were paid??

 

The point has to do with the establishment of the co-op. Any thoughts on that and how they live during that wind-up period?

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 108 of 137

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@jimc91 wrote:

Good one @rk9152, your business model has exposed this board... not many executives here, ya think?

 

Good job!

 

 


Expose who, Rk? (those were jim's words) wow, don't tell me that this is your first encounter with the Widget corporation. is it?

I have known about the Widget corporation since the 90's this is really old stuff.  Wait, I can probably start googling and find hundreds of examples that blow the Widget corporation out of the water. 
He really need to become more modern and provide examples that are more actual with the present corporations.


Hey, a good widget is a good widget, '90s model or last week's model.

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 109 of 137

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

The issue is the average CEO whose pay is 335 times that of their workers.  They do deserve more, but 335 times is ridiculous.  The top of society are getting ahead at the determent of the average worker and, in the process, destroying the middle class.  That is the problem that needs to be solved.


No, that is your issue. There are others who see such a corporate environment as ideal.

 

As to your issue - fine, how do you fix it?? Shall we have all wages (and prices?) government regulated?


 

OH, oh!!!!!!!  dear PC.  now you shall be exposed as to the style of Rk"s posts.  He will now will want you to engage him in a conversation that is really not the issue of his Widget post, and eventually if you ask him a direct question. you will see that he will not anwerer it.
His amazing style in which he asks  never ending questions, and the the amount of convolution in the posts will show you that is really not productive to engage in a efficient or productive conversation.  Good luck!!

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 110 of 137

@pc6063 wrote:

 

  (Can't help but wonder at this point how much United Airline's CEO makes per year?) 

You are spot on with regard to the salaries made by CEOs--the golden parachutes are another problem.

 



--

http://heavy.com/news/2017/04/oscar-munoz-ceo-united-airlines-salary-money-wealth-mexican-family-hea...

 

According to Salary.com, Oscar Munoz makes about $6.7 million per year.

This salary includes $604,207 in base pay and $6,083,112 in stocks. He also receives $48,793 in other compensation.

 

For comparison, Robin Hayes, the CEO of Jet Blue, reportedly makes $3.2 million per year.

 

According to the Chicago Tribune, Oscar Munoz and his wife, Cathy, live in a three bedroom condo that cost $3.5 million and which had previously been sold by Oprah Winfrey.

The mistake a lot of politicians make is forgetting
they've been appointed but thinking they've been anointed.
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