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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 111 of 137

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

As I was saying…...there are those who see the ideal  industrial situation as composed of “workers’ co-ops” - no “bosses”, no Execs, no shareholders. In other words, no one gaining benefit from the work of the workers except the workers.

 

Let’s see how that would work. Let’s consider the “All American Widget Corp.”. It is a successful niche business provided a constant stream of products wanted by the consumer. It has 200 employees who are well paid but also has those other folks so the workers do not share the total profits, others take some. To have established the “workers’ paradise” the business would have had to start differently than it did with it's founder and investors. Back then, those 200 hundred workers would have had to get together and see the market for widgets and decide to form their co-op. Then they would have needed a factory. So, they would have had to find the needed group of about 75 construction workers of varying skills all banded together with no management. The builders would have to find non-corporate material providers and, for delivery, non-corporate truckers driving non-corporate trucks. Then, of course, the necessary machinery and raw material becomes an issue.

 

Well, two and a half years later, they are up and running and shipping their product off to independent (non-corporate) retailers. And all is well in the workers paradise.


Ya gotta wonder though, during those two and a half years how did they eat and put shoes on their children. And where did they get the money to pay for the factory construction, equipment and supplies?


And all of this was the beginning of the philosophy that actual corporations that have workers, executive boards and CEO's  are the manner in which every society should work. 

because otherwise, we would have the failures that this post wants us to believe.
Oh !!! the actual worker's paradise is the example that he has not shared. 

A company that its workers have the benefits that its Board of Directors feel that they should have. The lack of loyalty that this type of corporation is well known, but, they do expect that loyalty from its workers. 
The CEO that individual that to date is hard to really know what exactly the actually do, to merit the renumeration that they all have.
But of course, any other model of a company that does not include that structure is a failure in their eyes, because, can you imagine what a pleasant place to work it would be if we really provided those workers with the benefits, salaries and the knowledge that what they are producing is part of their own, is their life and their committment to excellence?

Gee I don't think that they could stand that at all.so, now they  created the example of the Widget Corp. to show all of us, how foolish we all are in wanting to actually see anything different.

 


Gee, any company that succeeds on it's own without government intervention is fine with me. As to anything different, I think that is great. As an example, we both agree that Mondragon was a great experiment that worked. It, however, was not government action - the only thing I disagree with.

 

This topic comes up due to the call for some posters for the government to intervene and change the current situation - you know, the hatred for the 1%ers, Plutocrats, Oligarchs, Uberrich, etc. 

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 112 of 137

@TxGrandpa2 wrote:

Co-ops have worked well for years all over the country.  When one has "skin in the game," there is motivation to do well.

--

Of course they work....just look how they worked in Soviet Russia, but called collectives there.


I disagree, Tx. Co-ops are fine as long as they are privately done and the participation is voluntary and they accept responsibility for their own success or failure. It is the government taking over an existing entity (such as the Bolsheviks did) that concerns me.

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 113 of 137

@jimc91 wrote:

Good one @rk9152, your business model has exposed this board... not many executives here, ya think?

 

Good job!

Hardly .... You need not be an "executive" to realize that a business model based on an unlikely assumption actually "exposes" an amateur as its creator!


 

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 114 of 137

@pc6063 wrote:

sp362-Wonder if Donald Trump would be willing to do something to scale back those outrageous salaries earned by CEOs?  (Would that be a conflict of interests??)

  (Can't help but wonder at this point how much United Airline's CEO makes per year?) 

You are spot on with regard to the salaries made by CEOs--the golden parachutes are another problem.

 


Off topic but I certainly hope not. I do not want to see our nation go down the rat hole of the government setting salaries. Sounds to much like other, failed systems.

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 115 of 137

@rk9152 wrote:

@sp362 wrote:

The issue is the average CEO whose pay is 335 times that of their workers.  They do deserve more, but 335 times is ridiculous.  The top of society are getting ahead at the determent of the average worker and, in the process, destroying the middle class.  That is the problem that needs to be solved.


No, that is your issue. There are others who see such a corporate environment as ideal.

 

As to your issue - fine, how do you fix it?? Shall we have all wages (and prices?) government regulated?


Well, in Germany the CEOs make about 145 times as much and in Japan it is about 70 times as much.  So, to maximize profits, maybe all of these Publicly held companies should go overseas?  I don't how you can consider it ideal, just take a look at what has happened and what is happening to the middle class.  In 1965 the CEO to worker pay ratio was about 20 to 1. 

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 116 of 137

@pc6063 wrote:

snoopy48-- I totally agree! Co-ops have worked well for years all over the country.  When one has "skin in the game," there is motivation to do well.


And my Conservative thinking makes me applaud such situations.

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 117 of 137

@MIseker wrote:


people who dont understand how manufacturing works always wonder. The reason you wonder is because the example you offer isnt realistic. no one else thinks it is either.


Of course it is not realistic, yet there are some posters who see that as the ideal end result. My question isn't about the value of the end result but how you get there.

 

This, as you know, is an offshoot from the one about Marxism. And that was his big flaw - he knew where he (like some posters) wanted to be but not how to get there.

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 118 of 137

@jimc91 wrote:

Good one @rk9152, your business model has exposed this board... not many executives here, ya think?

 

Good job!

 

 


How would you know?  Do you think because people have different opinions that they couldn't be successful in the work force.  I for one, was an executive (never at the CEO level) and really got tired of seeing companies trying to make profits and the CEO make a larger bonus by cutting the wages of their lowest level workers.  If you believe that corporations are bastions of efficiency and do everything correct and perfectly, you have not lived in the real world.

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 119 of 137

@Soosie wrote:
@rk952.......I can't resist. Someone actually understands. Thanks from the bottom of my heart.

Soosie

My pleasure, thank you for the kind words.

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Re: Acme Widget Corp.

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Message 120 of 137

@rk9152 wrote:

As I was saying…...there are those who see the ideal  industrial situation as composed of “workers’ co-ops” - no “bosses”, no Execs, no shareholders. In other words, no one gaining benefit from the work of the workers except the workers.

 

Let’s see how that would work. Let’s consider the “All American Widget Corp.”. It is a successful niche business provided a constant stream of products wanted by the consumer. It has 200 employees who are well paid but also has those other folks so the workers do not share the total profits, others take some. To have established the “workers’ paradise” the business would have had to start differently than it did with it's founder and investors. Back then, those 200 hundred workers would have had to get together and see the market for widgets and decide to form their co-op. Then they would have needed a factory. So, they would have had to find the needed group of about 75 construction workers of varying skills all banded together with no management. The builders would have to find non-corporate material providers and, for delivery, non-corporate truckers driving non-corporate trucks. Then, of course, the necessary machinery and raw material becomes an issue.

 

Well, two and a half years later, they are up and running and shipping their product off to independent (non-corporate) retailers. And all is well in the workers paradise.


Ya gotta wonder though, during those two and a half years how did they eat and put shoes on their children. And where did they get the money to pay for the factory construction, equipment and supplies?


No ... "Ya gotta wonder" if your first assumption was not true:

" It has 200 employees who are well paid  ...." 

 

Your nice story falls all apart if the 200 employees were NOT well paid rk ..... and especially if those employees were not well paid because the business's founder and investors decided to keep most all of the revenue created by the business.

 All would not be "well" nor any "paradise for the workers".

 

And therein lies the fallacy of your argument .... it's all based on an enormously risky first assumption!

DUMP TRUMP AND DITCH MITCH TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!
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