Take a look at aging around the world in 'A New Age,' a special report by AARP and Magnum Photos.

Reply
Treasured Social Butterfly
6
Kudos
320
Views

Re: Abortion

320 Views
Message 41 of 50

@Soosie wrote:
I do understand your view regarding human life. @umbarch64.......Thanks for a well written, sensible response. Yes, there are choices. You and I just don't happen to agree on when the choice is to be made. Yes, I do know there are "shades of grey". I happen to think that life begins at conception. As for the choice for the mother and father, they make the choice before the baby is the fetus that so many think is a non-person or non-life. I think there are many who are casual in their practice for safe sex and expect the "situation" to be taken care of.
I am the Mom of an adopted child. I am grateful to the woman who chose to give birth to him even if it was not a time in her life where a baby was a good addition. She gave birth and put him up for adoption. She gave birth and I took over as Mom to a wonderful gift. We wanted another child, but with so many abortions, it was going to be years before we could get another baby because we had one. Can you prove to me the "fetus", living being" to me has no pain? I think some use guesswork. A bit like thinking an animal does not hurt because they can't talk to you. Now, I suspect you will surely know that I have a right to my beliefs as well.

There is NO LAW in the USA that says anyone has to have a Abortion..........................

 

There is also No Shortage of Children in the USA who have No Parent in the Picture and are living in Foster Care and RIGHT NOW there are hundreds more that Trump has placed in Cages after their parents were Deported without them who will never be able to locate their birth parents

 

This Abortion Debate is always agravating for me

 

1. Republicans want every fertilized human egg to be born - but then they want them to suffer - the GOP and now Trump is constantly cutting

 

School Lunch Programs

 

After School Care

 

Pre-school

 

Food Stamps

 

Childrens Healthcare

 

College Educations put Children behind the 8 ball for the first 35 years of their lives

 

2. When a kid reaches 18 Corporate USA wants to send them to Foreign Country to protect their raping of all other Countries Natural Resources like their

 

Gold - Oil - Natural Gas - Rhodium - Ruthenium - Iridium - Osmium - Palladium - Rhenium.

 

So you know what @Soosie - I don't know if a fetus feels pain - but I know first-hand Children who the GOP fights hard for their Birth - have no clue and if they do they could care less - the pain they cause those babies when they grow up and are used by them as pawns to make their buddies rich.......................

 

 3. Religious Finatics want the Government to pass all these laws because they are incapable of convincing Americans in the Pulpit

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

Report Inappropriate Content
6
Kudos
320
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
3
Kudos
337
Views

Re: Abortion

337 Views
Message 42 of 50

@Soosie wrote:
I do understand your view regarding human life. @umbarch64.......Thanks for a well written, sensible response. Yes, there are choices. You and I just don't happen to agree on when the choice is to be made. Yes, I do know there are "shades of grey". I happen to think that life begins at conception. As for the choice for the mother and father, they make the choice before the baby is the fetus that so many think is a non-person or non-life. I think there are many who are casual in their practice for safe sex and expect the "situation" to be taken care of.
I am the Mom of an adopted child. I am grateful to the woman who chose to give birth to him even if it was not a time in her life where a baby was a good addition. She gave birth and put him up for adoption. She gave birth and I took over as Mom to a wonderful gift. We wanted another child, but with so many abortions, it was going to be years before we could get another baby because we had one. Can you prove to me the "fetus", living being" to me has no pain? I think some use guesswork. A bit like thinking an animal does not hurt because they can't talk to you. Now, I suspect you will surely know that I have a right to my beliefs as well.

Thank you in return, Soosie.  I underlined some of your thoughts in the above post so I could reply to specifics.  None of my reply is intended to be argumentative in regard to 'belief' that does not materially affect another human being.  

 

For me life is as it's defined in Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary.  It includes plant and animal, sentient and non-sentient, mobile or immobile....etc. What we call 'life' is what we perceive through our senses.  The so-called existential stuff.  It may be this way here in this place and something entirely different elsewhere.  If it meets the criteria, it's life.    

 

Conception is only one way life'begins'.  

 

Safe sex practices are not 100% effective as contraceptives....nor as HIV or STD prevention.   In animals, prevention of conception effectively eliminates the ethical quandary's surrounding abortion.  The termination of potentially viable life.  Contraception is prohibited by some 'belief systems' [organized religion].  Some 'belief' systems would impose that prohibition on people other than themselves.  I don't consider that logical. Nor do I consider it 'within their rights' to do so. When imposed such a prohibition is itself an infringement of the right to choice.  

 

If an organism responds to outside stimuli it exhibits sensory perception. Whether that is pain or not is a human qualification and quantification based on what they imagine they would sense under similar circumstances. A presumption, even though rationally made. . Some plants measurably move in response to outside stimuli.   I really cannot understand pain in any organism except my own....nor can you.  I can project what I would feel under similar circumstances into the situation.  Some people call that empathy. 

 

Indeed you have a right to your 'beliefs' and you have every right the Constitution gives you to express those beliefs however you choose.  Imposing 'belief' on anyone else via coercive law or any other coercive means is quite something else.

 

There are innumerable places 'sanctity' of life [if there is such a thing] comes into play.  Abortion is just one.  War, executions, anytime any life is extinguished for any reason.  At the end of that chain, being a vegetarian just won't cut it....plants are life too.  In the end, being the predators we are, we take life to have life.  That much is a given.  Now we talk about what is tolerable to both of us....and what is not.  And we're back to shades of grey.

 

There is little difference between killing in battle and abortion...not really.  Both are the result of the failure of the rational application of ethics by human beings.  There are more examples of course...just as many as there are human beings at any one time.  Hypocrisy is in all humans to some degree...no one's 'perfect'....and all humans will seek to justify it somehow.

 

This is by way of explanation with the hope it may cause some reflection.  I know you're trying hard to be a good person.  So am I.

Report Inappropriate Content
3
Kudos
337
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
4
Kudos
353
Views

Re: Abortion

353 Views
Message 43 of 50

Soosie - Now, I suspect you will surely know that I have a right to my beliefs as well.

 

Absolutely you have a right to your beliefs, thoughts, judgments and decisions.

Another's decision to abort a fetus or put a baby they carried to term up for adoption has absolutely nothing - w h a t s o e v e r - to do with what you believe.  I'm sure you're clear on that, but if not accepting that fact after 45 years of legal abortion in the US....you can always move to El Salvador, Malta, the Vatican, Chile, the Dominican Republic or Nicaragua where you would, it seems, be more comfortable with their laws re abortion.

Report Inappropriate Content
4
Kudos
353
Views
Treasured Social Butterfly
6
Kudos
350
Views

Re: Abortion

350 Views
Message 44 of 50

@Soosie wrote:
I do understand your view regarding human life. @umbarch64.......Thanks for a well written, sensible response. Yes, there are choices. You and I just don't happen to agree on when the choice is to be made. Yes, I do know there are "shades of grey". I happen to think that life begins at conception. As for the choice for the mother and father, they make the choice before the baby is the fetus that so many think is a non-person or non-life. I think there are many who are casual in their practice for safe sex and expect the "situation" to be taken care of.
I am the Mom of an adopted child. I am grateful to the woman who chose to give birth to him even if it was not a time in her life where a baby was a good addition. She gave birth and put him up for adoption. She gave birth and I took over as Mom to a wonderful gift. We wanted another child, but with so many abortions, it was going to be years before we could get another baby because we had one. Can you prove to me the "fetus", living being" to me has no pain? I think some use guesswork. A bit like thinking an animal does not hurt because they can't talk to you. Now, I suspect you will surely know that I have a right to my beliefs as well.

Of course you do; like all individuals.  But, should the government FORCE your beliefs, and others, on to those inviduals who may have different beliefs?  The answer is obvious:

 

Image result for if your against abortion don't have one


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
Report Inappropriate Content
6
Kudos
350
Views
Treasured Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
358
Views

Re: Abortion

358 Views
Message 45 of 50
I do understand your view regarding human life. @umbarch64.......Thanks for a well written, sensible response. Yes, there are choices. You and I just don't happen to agree on when the choice is to be made. Yes, I do know there are "shades of grey". I happen to think that life begins at conception. As for the choice for the mother and father, they make the choice before the baby is the fetus that so many think is a non-person or non-life. I think there are many who are casual in their practice for safe sex and expect the "situation" to be taken care of.
I am the Mom of an adopted child. I am grateful to the woman who chose to give birth to him even if it was not a time in her life where a baby was a good addition. She gave birth and put him up for adoption. She gave birth and I took over as Mom to a wonderful gift. We wanted another child, but with so many abortions, it was going to be years before we could get another baby because we had one. Can you prove to me the "fetus", living being" to me has no pain? I think some use guesswork. A bit like thinking an animal does not hurt because they can't talk to you. Now, I suspect you will surely know that I have a right to my beliefs as well.
Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
358
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
2
Kudos
346
Views

Re: Abortion

346 Views
Message 46 of 50

@Soosie  I do understand your view regarding human life.  The specifics of your cartoon involve choice, though.  A conscious decision that can only be made by the mother.  To 'allow' her egg to be fertilzed and become a fetus....or not.  Absent that conscious decision, the mother has been deprived of her right to choice in this matter. That's the truth.  Not debatable.

 

ANY aware male who participates in fertilizing the egg makes a conscious choice to do so and bears full responsibility for the consequences of his part in it.  His choice is wholly independent of the mother, though they may be consensual. That's the truth, too.   

 

The egg and sperm both behave as biology dictates.  ANY resulting fetus has NO choice at all until it can exercise the ability to choose.  That's a biological circumstance.  That's the truth, too.

 

So...now then....logically.  The mother is human.  Are you willing to say the mother is NOT entitled to choice without coercion at any point until the fetus is a 'completely' separate human able to exercise choice?  Your cartoon suggests you do.  The 'shades of grey' involved here have nothing to do with another poster who uses that handle. Just you.  That's a real question, though.  Not rhetorical.

 

Be logical now.

 

 

Report Inappropriate Content
2
Kudos
346
Views
Valued Social Butterfly
2
Kudos
350
Views

Re: Abortion

350 Views
Message 47 of 50

mickstuder 

Thank you for your reply to the Abortion topic.  Nancy 

Report Inappropriate Content
2
Kudos
350
Views
Treasured Social Butterfly
7
Kudos
351
Views

Re: Abortion

351 Views
Message 48 of 50

Image result for if your against abortion don't have one


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
Report Inappropriate Content
7
Kudos
351
Views
Treasured Social Butterfly
5
Kudos
290
Views

Re: Abortion

290 Views
Message 49 of 50

@Soosie wrote:

abortion.jpg

Dog Chasing Tail.png

 

Dog Chasing Tail 1.png

 


 

A Lesson in Equivalency - Starting a Thread About Abortion is Equivalent to the Amusement Some find in watching a Dog Chase their own tail

 

 

( " China if You're Listening - Get Trumps Tax Returns " )

" )
" - Anonymous

Report Inappropriate Content
5
Kudos
290
Views
Treasured Social Butterfly
1
Kudos
294
Views
49
Replies

Abortion

294 Views
Message 50 of 50

abortion.jpg

Report Inappropriate Content
1
Kudos
294
Views
49
Replies