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Re: Abortion

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Message 21 of 106
Do it in the context of the thread where I said it... or cut and paste.

"The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile "
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Re: Abortion

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Message 22 of 106

Hey fishslayer , Can I get a comment on your President Trump's " Moral Compass " please ???

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Re: Abortion

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Message 23 of 106
@ mimi
My family has taken in pregnant young ladies and given them a place to reach term and deliver their baby. Babies who were born were given up for adoption. We did not adopt any of them.

"The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile "
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Re: Abortion

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Message 24 of 106

@Indianrock wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:

The point of the philosophy lesson was that you can't define something into existence.  Stating that the law and society have no say on abortion doesn't make it so, regardless of which side of the issue you're on.   The best you can do is vote and elect people who support your viewpoint.

 

This whole thread seems to have gone off into the usual warfare seen on most forums.

 

I got my answer stated in the original post.

 


I agree that abortions would continue but mostly for the wealthy as it did before. The real tragedy would be all the women forced to hold onto a collection of cells until it becomes a human being with all the accompanying responsibilities.

 

Maybe we could also force them to become pregnant too? Seems the next logical step. 


Personally, as I've said, I'm not trying to overturn legal abortions.    "collection of cells"    The definition of what lives in the uterus of a pregnant woman is decided directly by courts and indirectly by peoples' votes.     You see, I'm not introducing anything about religion, bible etc.  Simply stating that the U.S. determines it's laws on such matters through elections and resulting court appointments.      I can argue until I'm blue in the face that the occupant of a pregnant woman's uterus is a green alien from Pluto, the law and it's enforcement will pay no attention.

 

Now Philosophy has been defined as the study of "what ought to be."  So we could talk about the philosophy of pregnancy and abortion. 

 

If society ( laws ) defines that uterus occupant as a collection of cells ( not human ), then minimizing abortion or seeing it as a last resort would be of little importance.  Abortion = condom

 

If those who think abortion should be illegal ( not me ) prevail, then that occupant would be viewed as human and abortion would be viewed, at minimum, as a last resort.

 


Ah, you have added an "if" to the equation. In the middle ages, it was believed that the sperm contained a perfectly formed human being to be deposited into the egg of the female and grown to birth.  This seems to be the basis for the entire "pro life" movement.  

 

I would say the preference are 

  1. abstinence
  2. birth control
  3. carry to term
  4. abortion. 

I fear 3 is there because of the propoganda of my youth but what can one do?

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Re: Abortion

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Message 25 of 106

@Richva wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:

The point of the philosophy lesson was that you can't define something into existence.  Stating that the law and society have no say on abortion doesn't make it so, regardless of which side of the issue you're on.   The best you can do is vote and elect people who support your viewpoint.

 

This whole thread seems to have gone off into the usual warfare seen on most forums.

 

I got my answer stated in the original post.

 


I agree that abortions would continue but mostly for the wealthy as it did before. The real tragedy would be all the women forced to hold onto a collection of cells until it becomes a human being with all the accompanying responsibilities.

 

Maybe we could also force them to become pregnant too? Seems the next logical step. 


Personally, as I've said, I'm not trying to overturn legal abortions.    "collection of cells"    The definition of what lives in the uterus of a pregnant woman is decided directly by courts and indirectly by peoples' votes.     You see, I'm not introducing anything about religion, bible etc.  Simply stating that the U.S. determines it's laws on such matters through elections and resulting court appointments.      I can argue until I'm blue in the face that the occupant of a pregnant woman's uterus is a green alien from Pluto, the law and it's enforcement will pay no attention.

 

Now Philosophy has been defined as the study of "what ought to be."  So we could talk about the philosophy of pregnancy and abortion. 

 

If society ( laws ) defines that uterus occupant as a collection of cells ( not human ), then minimizing abortion or seeing it as a last resort would be of little importance.  Abortion = condom

 

If those who think abortion should be illegal ( not me ) prevail, then that occupant would be viewed as human and abortion would be viewed, at minimum, as a last resort.

 

Burnhaven
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Re: Abortion

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Message 26 of 106

@Indianrock wrote:

The point of the philosophy lesson was that you can't define something into existence.  Stating that the law and society have no say on abortion doesn't make it so, regardless of which side of the issue you're on.   The best you can do is vote and elect people who support your viewpoint.

 

This whole thread seems to have gone off into the usual warfare seen on most forums.

 

I got my answer stated in the original post.

 


I agree that abortions would continue but mostly for the wealthy as it did before. The real tragedy would be all the women forced to hold onto a collection of cells until it becomes a human being with all the accompanying responsibilities.

 

Maybe we could also force them to become pregnant too? Seems the next logical step. 

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Re: Abortion

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Message 27 of 106

@Olderscout66 wrote:

 


@Indianrock wrote:

As far as an abortion being solely the woman's decision, it reminds me of an idea that came up in a philosophy class.    A $1000 bill was defined as being a piece of legal tender, that was present now in my wallet.  So, we defined a $1,000 bill in that way, but, surprise, when we opened our wallets, it wasn't there.

 

I get that men are often bums, fathering children and taking no responsibility.  Much needs to be done to correct that as we've discussed.   Today, abortion is legal and my goal isn't to change that but to minimize the need for it in positive ways.  There are forces at work who want to make abortion illegal again.  Part of the problem there is pushing one group's idea of morality on others, but we do that all the time via the ballot box.   The other part of the problem is "minimal thinking" where the push is just to do  "thing A,"   when A really should also require  B, C and D  ( making abortion A illegal requires additional legal steps to force male responsibility, require tax support for child care, education and adoption, to name a few ).


Seriously weird philosophy class - sounds like the existentialist version of "If you call a tail a leg, how many legs does a dog have? Four. Calling a tail a leg doesn't make it one. (M. Twain)

 

It's the Republicans total abrogation of their moral responsibility for the children their policies force on those who do not want them that really shows they have no real interest in the welfare of the fetus - as soon as it's out of the mother and breathing, it's on its own.


The point of the philosophy lesson was that you can't define something into existence.  Stating that the law and society have no say on abortion doesn't make it so, regardless of which side of the issue you're on.   The best you can do is vote and elect people who support your viewpoint.

 

This whole thread seems to have gone off into the usual warfare seen on most forums.

 

I got my answer stated in the original post.

 

Burnhaven
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Re: Abortion

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Message 28 of 106

@mimi0000 wrote:

How many anti-abortion fans have adopted an unwanted child  Please stand up

If not shut up

If you are against abortions, don't have one.  

I am anti-guns ... I don't have one. 


Based on the anti abortion fans I have met, I thing it is good that they don't adopt. Probably better if they don't reproduce at all.  Very creepy people. 

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Re: Abortion

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Message 29 of 106

@mimi0000 wrote:

How many anti-abortion fans have adopted an unwanted child  Please stand up

If not shut up

If you are against abortions, don't have one.  

I am anti-guns ... I don't have one. 


I'm pro-choice and I've adopted some unwanted children - because that's what a decent human being does.

 

Back in the sixties, when my girlfriend found out the pill didn't keep her from becoming pregnant, she had an abortion - her body, her life, her choice, I paid - because that's what a decent human being does.  

 

Yep - I've been on both sides of that issue - have you?

 

If it's not your life and not a pregnancy that you have had a part in starting - it's never been any of your business - go somewhere else - or better yet - tell us why you were so selfish that you wouldn't adopt any unwanted children...

 

44>dolt45
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Re: Abortion

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Message 30 of 106

How many anti-abortion fans have adopted an unwanted child  Please stand up

If not shut up

If you are against abortions, don't have one.  

I am anti-guns ... I don't have one. 

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