Reply
Trusted Contributor

Abortion

Many of my Christian conservative friends seem to vote primarily on a candidate's stand on this issue, as if a single representative or even President can snap their fingers and make a change in abortion law.   In a recent conversation, one said that there are a large number of abortion-related deaths ( of women) even with legal abortions, which might tend to downplay the risks of overturning Roe v Wade and returning to the era of illegal abortions.

 

I'm wondering what the truth is here.  I hate the idea of abortion and think everything possible should be done to avoid it, including the willingness to have more taxes placed on me to subsidize adoption and things like child-care for women contemplating an abortion.   But I'm really wondering what would things be like if Roe v Wade were overturned.  Surely abortions would continue, just illegally, and we've all heard the horror stories of "back-alley" abortions.

 

 

Burnhaven
Honored Social Butterfly

@mandm84

 

You know you've misquoted me... taken out of context. Here's what i said about Pocahantus (Elisabeth Warren) It was never about Jimmy Carter who I believe has a moral compass which always points towards heaven. 

 

She is cut in the mold of Eugene McCarthy and Jimmy Carter without a moral compass. Her contrived anger and ugly hate is definitely not of the righteous variety... it is the Hillary Clinton variety = self serving. She has made a living out of fake moral indignation. She's lucky she's not from Salem.

She's the worst kind of liberal = fake one.

 


@mandm84 wrote:

Hey fishslayer , Can I get a comment on your President Trump's " Moral Compass " please ???





Libs are nuttier than squirrel poop
0 Kudos
347 Views
1
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@Fishslayer777 wrote:

@mandm84

 

You know you've misquoted me... taken out of context. Here's what i said about Pocahantus (Elisabeth Warren) It was never about Jimmy Carter who I believe has a moral compass which always points towards heaven. 

 

She is cut in the mold of Eugene McCarthy and Jimmy Carter without a moral compass. Her contrived anger and ugly hate is definitely not of the righteous variety... it is the Hillary Clinton variety = self serving. She has made a living out of fake moral indignation. She's lucky she's not from Salem.

She's the worst kind of liberal = fake one.

 


@mandm84 wrote:

Hey fishslayer , Can I get a comment on your President Trump's " Moral Compass " please ???





So you're not going to be objective about trump - given that trump has claimed to be a Christian?

 

44>dolt45
Honored Social Butterfly


@mandm84 wrote:

Hey fishslayer , Can I get a comment on your President Trump's " Moral Compass " please ???


Me too.

I bet there's more than just two of us...

We want to see an objective comparison between Carter's Moral Compass and Trump's Moral Compass.

44>dolt45
Honored Social Butterfly

Do it in the context of the thread where I said it... or cut and paste.

Libs are nuttier than squirrel poop
0 Kudos
493 Views
0
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@mimi0000 wrote:

How many anti-abortion fans have adopted an unwanted child  Please stand up

If not shut up

If you are against abortions, don't have one.  

I am anti-guns ... I don't have one. 


Based on the anti abortion fans I have met, I thing it is good that they don't adopt. Probably better if they don't reproduce at all.  Very creepy people. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@mimi0000 wrote:

How many anti-abortion fans have adopted an unwanted child  Please stand up

If not shut up

If you are against abortions, don't have one.  

I am anti-guns ... I don't have one. 


I'm pro-choice and I've adopted some unwanted children - because that's what a decent human being does.

 

Back in the sixties, when my girlfriend found out the pill didn't keep her from becoming pregnant, she had an abortion - her body, her life, her choice, I paid - because that's what a decent human being does.  

 

Yep - I've been on both sides of that issue - have you?

 

If it's not your life and not a pregnancy that you have had a part in starting - it's never been any of your business - go somewhere else - or better yet - tell us why you were so selfish that you wouldn't adopt any unwanted children...

 

44>dolt45
Honored Social Butterfly

I suppose the definition of "last resort" should be addressed.  I would think the anti-abortion crowd would see carrying the embryo to term and having a child to be the  logical step.  If you are pregnant, you either have the embryo removed before it can become a fetus or don't.  I don't understand which is the "last resort". 

 

Unfortunately, that is a huge set of consequences beyond those associated with a surgical (or pill now) which is the medical equivalent of having a benign mole removed. 

 

 

Trusted Contributor

It's been a good discussion with a lot of give and take.  Sometimes this forum results in posts which don't even address the original post ( personal agenda, axe to grind, etc ) but that's pretty common.

 

I think the word compromise should be used more.  Unless you live under a King or dictator, nobody gets everything they want.  I believe the founders of the United States intended for it to be difficult to make changes and created the 3 branches of government to "check" eachother.   Quite often they negotiated and compromised, realizing that nobody gets 100% of what they want, but still achieving some results for the common good.

 

Unfortunately we're now seeing a lot of "my way or the highway," and " if you don't agree with me 100% you're the enemy or of the devil."

 

Burnhaven
0 Kudos
559 Views
2
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@Indianrock wrote:

It's been a good discussion with a lot of give and take.  Sometimes this forum results in posts which don't even address the original post ( personal agenda, axe to grind, etc ) but that's pretty common.

 

I think the word compromise should be used more.  Unless you live under a King or dictator, nobody gets everything they want.  I believe the founders of the United States intended for it to be difficult to make changes and created the 3 branches of government to "check" eachother.   Quite often they negotiated and compromised, realizing that nobody gets 100% of what they want, but still achieving some results for the common good.

 

Unfortunately we're now seeing a lot of "my way or the highway," and " if you don't agree with me 100% you're the enemy or of the devil."

 


Ihave agreed abortion is a last resort. one way to cut down on abortions is free birth control.

 

as for me, i was adopted in 1956..my birth mother didnt want a kid fr whatever reason. SO my point of view is coming from a place of " I could have wound up on the end of a coat hanger". and yes i have discussed that long and deep with other adoptees..and all of us support legal abortion..because that would have been better for us than the coat hangar.

So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly


@Indianrock wrote:

It's been a good discussion with a lot of give and take.  Sometimes this forum results in posts which don't even address the original post ( personal agenda, axe to grind, etc ) but that's pretty common.

 

I think the word compromise should be used more.  Unless you live under a King or dictator, nobody gets everything they want.  I believe the founders of the United States intended for it to be difficult to make changes and created the 3 branches of government to "check" eachother.   Quite often they negotiated and compromised, realizing that nobody gets 100% of what they want, but still achieving some results for the common good.

 

Unfortunately we're now seeing a lot of "my way or the highway," and " if you don't agree with me 100% you're the enemy or of the devil."

 



@Indianrock wrote:

It's been a good discussion with a lot of give and take.  Sometimes this forum results in posts which don't even address the original post ( personal agenda, axe to grind, etc ) but that's pretty common.

 

I think the word compromise should be used more.  Unless you live under a King or dictator, nobody gets everything they want.  I believe the founders of the United States intended for it to be difficult to make changes and created the 3 branches of government to "check" eachother.   Quite often they negotiated and compromised, realizing that nobody gets 100% of what they want, but still achieving some results for the common good.

 

Unfortunately we're now seeing a lot of "my way or the highway," and " if you don't agree with me 100% you're the enemy or of the devil."

 



@Indianrock wrote:

It's been a good discussion with a lot of give and take.  Sometimes this forum results in posts which don't even address the original post ( personal agenda, axe to grind, etc ) but that's pretty common.

 

I think the word compromise should be used more.  Unless you live under a King or dictator, nobody gets everything they want.  I believe the founders of the United States intended for it to be difficult to make changes and created the 3 branches of government to "check" eachother.   Quite often they negotiated and compromised, realizing that nobody gets 100% of what they want, but still achieving some results for the common good.

 

Unfortunately we're now seeing a lot of "my way or the highway," and " if you don't agree with me 100% you're the enemy or of the devil."

 


Sorry that you think that is may way or the highway. by the way, that is what I think about your posts.
I have said that I respect your views. do not try to change mine.  So, what is it going to be.?
Or are you here with the mission of "save the world"  from all of those women that "kill babies"?
Do yourself a favor, there are other very interesting thread that probably suit you more and a lot more interesting You are sure welcome in any of them.

no name
0 Kudos
550 Views
0
Report
Trusted Contributor

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not

Burnhaven
0 Kudos
405 Views
11
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@Indianrock wrote:

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not


Only if we want to talk about fairy wishes and magic hormone suppression potions.  Since the primary purpose of any organism is to exist and to procreate, I do not think there ever has been a successful adoption of "just say no" for more than a few members of society. 

Trusted Contributor


@Richva wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not


Only if we want to talk about fairy wishes and magic hormone suppression potions.  Since the primary purpose of any organism is to exist and to procreate, I do not think there ever has been a successful adoption of "just say no" for more than a few members of society. 


Most people have a natural inclincation to eat food, so they work and save and don't spend all their money on booze or Ferrari's.  Thus they have money left over for food.   Avoiding sex because you're too young, too poor or already have ten children doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult unless you're too immature ( say under 16 ) to consider the consequences, too stupid ( 10% of society?) or you just think I can always get an abortion.  I can excuse the immature and stupid, but not that last category anymore than I can excuse drunk drivers.

 

Seems like "civilization" is protecting people too much from consequences.  When I was ten and poked the big bully on the block with a stick, I got a bloody nose and learned something.  Are we no longer learning such lessons?

Burnhaven
0 Kudos
526 Views
1
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@Indianrock wrote:


Most people have a natural inclincation to eat food, so they work and save and don't spend all their money on booze or Ferrari's.  Thus they have money left over for food.   Avoiding sex because you're too young, too poor or already have ten children doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult unless you're too immature ( say under 16 ) to consider the consequences, too stupid ( 10% of society?) or you just think I can always get an abortion.  I can excuse the immature and stupid, but not that last category anymore than I can excuse drunk drivers.

 

Seems like "civilization" is protecting people too much from consequences.  When I was ten and poked the big bully on the block with a stick, I got a bloody nose and learned something.  Are we no longer learning such lessons?


You would think that is the case. You would also think that people would not have sex outside their marriages or with people they hardly know.  You would think people would use contraceptives every time they had sex.  You would think that people would change the oil in their cars and go to the dentist regularly. You would think people would eat healthy and exercise every day. 

 

You would think we would learn to stop saying "you would think" and live in the real world without fantasy solutions but I find myself in there pretending all the same. 

 

No. People are not going to abstain from sex and women are going to keep gettng pregnant when they do not wish to be. Sorry. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@Indianrock wrote:

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not


As I have told you before, I do respect your views but don't agree with them. But, do you read history sometimes?

Go back to places like ancient Greece. and take a look at what  happened in those time. Ancient Rome and other societies way before Christianity even existed.
Perhaps you will find that termination of pregancies have always existed. nothing new. and there have been multitudes of manners in which women terminated their preganancies.
So, if abortions have been condemned after the birth of Christianity, isn't that sort of a modern  notion?

no name
Trusted Contributor


@Roxanna35 wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not


As I have told you before, I do respect your views but don't agree with them. But, do you read history sometimes?

Go back to places like ancient Greece. and take a look at what  happened in those time. Ancient Rome and other societies way before Christianity even existed.
Perhaps you will find that termination of pregancies have always existed. nothing new. and there have been multitudes of manners in which women terminated their preganancies.
So, if abortions have been condemned after the birth of Christianity, isn't that sort of a modern  notion?


The romans and others also burned people at the stake and threw them to the lions, doesn't mean it was a good way to run society.  Abortion should be a last resort, not an alternative to common sense.

Burnhaven
0 Kudos
547 Views
1
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@Indianrock wrote:

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not


As I have told you before, I do respect your views but don't agree with them. But, do you read history sometimes?

Go back to places like ancient Greece. and take a look at what  happened in those time. Ancient Rome and other societies way before Christianity even existed.
Perhaps you will find that termination of pregancies have always existed. nothing new. and there have been multitudes of manners in which women terminated their preganancies.
So, if abortions have been condemned after the birth of Christianity, isn't that sort of a modern  notion?


The romans and others also burned people at the stake and threw them to the lions, doesn't mean it was a good way to run society.  Abortion should be a last resort, not an alternative to common sense.


I havent seen anyone dispute abortion being a last resort

 

So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly


@Indianrock wrote:

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not


Shame on you, IndianRock!  Infringing on a woman's right to get knocked-up.... <smirk>

 

Do you really believe that's the intent?  Or are you aware enough to know it's usually an unintentional consequence?  I know quite a few "Christians" that still rely on the rhythm method.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Trusted Contributor


@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not


Shame on you, IndianRock!  Infringing on a woman's right to get knocked-up.... <smirk>

 

Do you really believe that's the intent?  Or are you aware enough to know it's usually an unintentional consequence?  I know quite a few "Christians" that still rely on the rhythm method.


Rhythm method was an old Catholic thing.  I've been a Christian, not all that conservative, but attending Bible-teaching churches for over 30 years and haven't heard anyone discourage birth control, at all.  zip

Burnhaven
0 Kudos
529 Views
2
Report
Honored Social Butterfly


@Indianrock wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not


Shame on you, IndianRock!  Infringing on a woman's right to get knocked-up.... <smirk>

 

Do you really believe that's the intent?  Or are you aware enough to know it's usually an unintentional consequence?  I know quite a few "Christians" that still rely on the rhythm method.


Rhythm method was an old Catholic thing.  I've been a Christian, not all that conservative, but attending Bible-teaching churches for over 30 years and haven't heard anyone discourage birth control, at all.  zip


Aren't Catholics "Christians"?  Most I know sure think they are.

 

It is good that Evangelicals and Catholics have lively discussions on the interpretation of Scripture. Evangelicals do that with each other all the time. That's why there are so many different denominations. However, any organization that says "Catholics are not Christians," is ignoring the history of Christianity. The name Christian predates all Protestant and Evangelical Churches by over a millennium. Many Evangelicals who think that Catholics are not Christian may be surprised to learn they accept the authority of several Catholic councils every time they pick up their Bible. The Bible didn't fall out of the sky, spiral bound with an NIV sticker on it. It has a rich Catholic history.

Any time spent studying the Church Fathers will make it abundantly clear that early Christian beliefs were Catholic. Their complete unity over the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist is only one example.

 

http://catholicbridge.com/catholic/are_catholics_christian.php

 

btw....the rhythm method IS considered a birth control method.  Just saying.....

 

"People have wanted and needed to prevent pregnancy for thousands of years. Before the birth control pill and condoms came along, couples had to figure out their fertile days each month, and avoid sex during those times. Today, that's known as periodic abstinence, also called the rhythm method."

 

Birth Control


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in DC, 1/27/2017
Honored Social Butterfly


@Indianrock wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:

Dare I mention the option of just not getting pregnant  ( when rape and incest were not an issue)?

 

Probably not


Shame on you, IndianRock!  Infringing on a woman's right to get knocked-up.... <smirk>

 

Do you really believe that's the intent?  Or are you aware enough to know it's usually an unintentional consequence?  I know quite a few "Christians" that still rely on the rhythm method.


Rhythm method was an old Catholic thing.  I've been a Christian, not all that conservative, but attending Bible-teaching churches for over 30 years and haven't heard anyone discourage birth control, at all.  zip

Of course the rhythim pethod don't work that is why most Catholics don't even bother with it. and yes Catholics do discourage birth control pills which as we know is not followed by many.
By the way, in case you didn't know. even with birth control pills and other methods of birth control  pregancies do occurr.  My middle daughter  is alive and well, and it was quite an unexpected pregnancy.
So, I do take issue, when anyone  starts speaking about the Bible. and trying to convince others regarding an issue. that like I have stated. not only is a female issue, but is an issue, that lies within the conscience of the female individual.

So, in the same manner that I respect your views, please do respect mine and stop trying to convince me or anyone that believes that it is  not a choice issue, 

So go and attend  your Bible class and enjoy it.


 

no name
0 Kudos
559 Views
0
Report
cancel
Showing results for 
Show  only  | Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Users
Announcements

Does AARP donate to political parties or endorse candidates?

AARP is strictly non-partisan and always has been. We never endorse or donate to candidates, political parties or political action committees.

Learn more.

AARP Members Only Games

Play members only games, like FIll Ins, Lumeno, 2048 and a collaborative, multiplayer Let's Crossword.

Play Now
AARP Members Only Games Logos
AARP Rewards

Solve Crosswords. Earn Rewards. Activate AARP Rewards to earn points for games, quizzes and videos. Redeem for deals and discounts.

Get started with AARP Rewards now!
/html/assets/Rewards-program-badge-355x224.png