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Re: Abortion

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Message 71 of 106

"not a human until 9 weeks" is an opinion.  Not the only one on the subject.  Ultimately all of these questions are decided at the ballot box -- like it or not.      Some might think having a prison sentence for murder interferes with their personal beliefs, but it is the law of the land.  One can always move elsewhere.

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Re: Abortion

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Message 72 of 106

I used to think abortion was something to be avoided but then I realized that, since  it is not a human fetus until 9 weeks aborting the embryo is just losing cells. 

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Re: Abortion

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Message 73 of 106

@Indianrock wrote:

I think the statement that abortion deaths prior to Roe v. Wade weren't reported as abortion goes a long way towards explaining some misconceptions that deaths from abortions are higher now than when abortion was illegal.

 

As far as it being only a woman's decision:   the problem is many people view abortion as taking a life.  For them, it isn't much different than a father deciding to kill his 10-year-old son.   From that perspective, the woman's "right to choose" was forfeited when she got pregnant of her own free will  ( I"m intentionally leaving out those cases of rape/incest where IT WAS NOT OF HER ON FREE WILL ).         HOWEVER, society should go to great lengths to make the male involved live up to his obligations ----   castration and working in prison at the end of a whip if necessary.


IMO, it's about Liberty; not murder.  And it get's down to this simple fact;

 

Pro-life supporters have a view and want the government to force that view on everyone;

Pro-lifers have a view and want every voter to be able to hold their own view and act accordingly;

 

Which sounds like more liberty in a Democracy, or like "freedom"?


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Abortion

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Message 74 of 106

@rker321 wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:
@rker321 wrote:

I will now try to explain as to why it is a woman's issue. 
I will try to put it in a crude manner.

Women:   A Coke machine.
Men"   a quarter.

Men" put quater in machine,  Woman produce a bottle of coke.

The intervention of that quater as we all know has become quite irrelevant. Therefore the decission to reproduce these days, is still a women's decission 

 

The Coke, the product, already exists in the machine.  Another woman, or child can place a quarter in the machine and the product will appear.  The Coke machine in your bizarre example, doesn't have a "choice" to make.  So you just blew your own reasoning out of the water.  The coke  is the the product of the quater, no quarter no product. Horrible analogy....as pointed out earlier, the Coke already exists in the machine.  In fact, it's well stocked with Coke's.  and in todays world you are correct eithter a female Dr or a male doctor can actually   fertilize an egg and a child is produced.  Can't fertilize an egg without a male.  Look, my example may not be that great, but the point is tha is the female that creates and nurtures that egg  Yep, wasn't a very good one, but no biggie.  But you are WRONG when you say the female "creates"...it takes both a male and female.   until it becomes a person and eventually gives birth that that person. Men, have little to do with any of this. There is NO creation without a male.  Why deny it?  Is it just to justify your belief that no men should have a say?  That's a VERY sexist position you know.  If you want to feel all of that responsibility, Great. and good for you. but I can assure you that the child will exist with or without you.  And wouldn't have existed without a male?  Why are you so insistent a male should have no say?  Isn't that what you and I are discussing?

 

A child does not already exist in a woman, just waiting for a man to insert his quarter.  If that was the case, two woman could produce a child and no sperm would be necessary.
Ony  eggs exist in the women and without that egg. no speerm will ever produce a child. who knows, No kidding; and without the sperm, the egg will just leave the body.  Ya see?  Women need men to reproduce, just as men need women.  It's actually pretty cool.  they may produce a sperm that may fertilize an egg and then what?  Well, and then you say, "get lost; it's all about me and what I want". Rather self-centered, IMO.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Abortion

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Message 75 of 106

@rker321 wrote:


I truly respect your personal views on abortion. Why thank you.  That means the world to me.  and I am sure that you will follow those beliefs. I do, and thanks for your affirmation.  but make very sure that your beliefs do not interfere with mine.  What a bizarre comment.  How could they?  BTW, your's are self-serving and misandristic; my views are not.  You want to deny others their rights, I do not.  I find it laughable that you think the opinions of men have no place in this discussion.  But that's OK; I like to laugh....it's good for the soul.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Abortion

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Message 76 of 106

@Centristsin2010 wrote:
@rker321 wrote:

I will now try to explain as to why it is a woman's issue. 
I will try to put it in a crude manner.

Women:   A Coke machine.
Men"   a quarter.

Men" put quater in machine,  Woman produce a bottle of coke.

The intervention of that quater as we all know has become quite irrelevant. Therefore the decission to reproduce these days, is still a women's decission 

 

The Coke, the product, already exists in the machine.  Another woman, or child can place a quarter in the machine and the product will appear.  The Coke machine in your bizarre example, doesn't have a "choice" to make.  So you just blew your own reasoning out of the water.  The coke  is the the product of the quater, no quarter no product. and in todays world you are correct eithter a female Dr or a male doctor can actually   fertilize an egg and a child is produced.Look, my example may not be that great, but the point is tha is the female that creates and nurtures that egg until it becomes a person and eventually gives birth that that person. Men, have little to do with any of this. If you want to feel all of that responsibility, Great. and good for you. but I can assure you that the child will exist with or without you.

 

A child does not already exist in a woman, just waiting for a man to insert his quarter.  If that was the case, two woman could produce a child and no sperm would be necessary.
Ony  eggs exist in the women and without that egg. no speerm will ever produce a child. who knows, they may produce a sperm that may fertilize an egg and then what?


 

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Re: Abortion

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Message 77 of 106

@Indianrock wrote:

I think the statement that abortion deaths prior to Roe v. Wade weren't reported as abortion goes a long way towards explaining some misconceptions that deaths from abortions are higher now than when abortion was illegal.

 

As far as it being only a woman's decision:   the problem is many people view abortion as taking a life.  For them, it isn't much different than a father deciding to kill his 10-year-old son.   From that perspective, the woman's "right to choose" was forfeited when she got pregnant of her own free will  ( I"m intentionally leaving out those cases of rape/incest where IT WAS NOT OF HER ON FREE WILL ).         HOWEVER, society should go to great lengths to make the male involved live up to his obligations ----   castration and working in prison at the end of a whip if necessary.


I truly respect your personal views on abortion. and I am sure that you will follow those beliefs. but make very sure that your beliefs do not interfere with mine.

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Re: Abortion

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Message 78 of 106

@Indianrock wrote:

They might also say you can put the embryo to death  3 months into the pregnancy if a jury convicts he/she of murder.  :-)


Well, one sperm sure beat millions of others.  Whose to say it just swam faster?  Smiley Wink  Smiley Wink   Smiley Wink  Want a Coke?  LOL.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Abortion

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Message 79 of 106

They might also say you can put the embryo to death  3 months into the pregnancy if a jury convicts he/she of murder.  :-)

Burnhaven
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Re: Abortion

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Message 80 of 106

@Indianrock wrote:

I think the statement that abortion deaths prior to Roe v. Wade weren't reported as abortion goes a long way towards explaining some misconceptions that deaths from abortions are higher now than when abortion was illegal.

 

As far as it being only a woman's decision:   the problem is many people view abortion as taking a life.  For them, it isn't much different than a father deciding to kill his 10-year-old son.   From that perspective, the woman's "right to choose" was forfeited when she got pregnant of her own free will.


These Christians often support the death penalty as well.....just saying.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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