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Re: Abortion

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Message 81 of 106

I think the statement that abortion deaths prior to Roe v. Wade weren't reported as abortion goes a long way towards explaining some misconceptions that deaths from abortions are higher now than when abortion was illegal.

 

As far as it being only a woman's decision:   the problem is many people view abortion as taking a life.  For them, it isn't much different than a father deciding to kill his 10-year-old son.   From that perspective, the woman's "right to choose" was forfeited when she got pregnant of her own free will  ( I"m intentionally leaving out those cases of rape/incest where IT WAS NOT OF HER ON FREE WILL ).         HOWEVER, society should go to great lengths to make the male involved live up to his obligations ----   castration and working in prison at the end of a whip if necessary.

Burnhaven
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Re: Abortion

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Message 82 of 106

@gruffstuff wrote:

I hate the idea of abortion and think everything possible should be done to avoid it

 

The best way to avoid abortions is to avoid unplanned / unwanted pregnancies through the use of birth control. I don't get what the objection to birth control is. 


Lots of rediculious stuff goes into the illogic of the RW on this. The Fanatical Fundies consider The Pill an abortifacent because it prevents the fertilized egg from implanting in the wall of the Uterus. Apparently spremicides are evil because they kill half a potential zigote? Condoms and vaginal dams interfer with God's Will and withdrawl gets you zapped by lightening just like Onan (except that was NOT the reason for Onan's problem, but Fundies don't study the bible, they just look for conformation of what they're told it says) Then there's the strong tendency of RWers to need someone to persecute, and women who actually have sex and get pregnant when they didn't want to have been a favorite target of the Bigot-class for centuries.

 

Hope this aides you understanding of what passes for "reasoning" in the GOP since Nixon launched his Southern Strategy.

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Re: Abortion

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Message 83 of 106

@gruffstuff wrote:

I hate the idea of abortion and think everything possible should be done to avoid it

 

The best way to avoid abortions is to avoid unplanned / unwanted pregnancies through the use of birth control. I don't get what the objection to birth control is. 


Absolutely!

 

Image result for if you're against abortion don't have one


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Abortion

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Message 84 of 106

@rker321 wrote:

I can see the Bible Belt again trying to manipulate its congregation.

Again, it is a woman's issue,.....nope, it's a man AND a woman's issue....it is the safety of any woman that makes that detrmination. BULL!  Most abortions have nothing to do with "the safety of a woman"....it's almost always a birth control issue.  and what is worse.  (sic)  claiming it's only a woman's issue.

No one will ever stop a termination of a pregnance if a termination is what it is decided. Not now, not ever in history.  You should bone up on your "history"....


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Abortion

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Message 85 of 106
@rker321 wrote:

I will now try to explain as to why it is a woman's issue. 
I will try to put it in a crude manner.

Women:   A Coke machine.
Men"   a quarter.

Men" put quater in machine,  Woman produce a bottle of coke.

The intervention of that quater as we all know has become quite irrelevant. Therefore the decission to reproduce these days, is still a women's decission 

 

The Coke, the product, already exists in the machine.  Another woman, or child can place a quarter in the machine and the product will appear.  The Coke machine in your bizarre example, doesn't have a "choice" to make.  So you just blew your own reasoning out of the water.

 

A child does not already exist in a woman, just waiting for a man to insert his quarter.  If that was the case, two woman could produce a child and no sperm would be necessary.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Abortion

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Message 86 of 106

I hate the idea of abortion and think everything possible should be done to avoid it

 

The best way to avoid abortions is to avoid unplanned / unwanted pregnancies through the use of birth control. I don't get what the objection to birth control is. 

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Re: Abortion

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Message 87 of 106

Just another aspect of Nixon's Southern Strategy - the "useful fools" Tricky used to get elected now run his party. The last time they thought about questioning religon was age 6, when they wondered aloud how all those kangaroos got from Turkey to Austrailia and were told such thought would send them straight to Hell. So, since their preachers told them life begins with conception and it is a great sin to take a life, they have no choice but to deny women their choice.

 

Thanks Hillary Haters for making sure these geniuses now control our Government.

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Re: Abortion

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Message 88 of 106

I can see the Bible Belt again trying to manipulate its congregation.

Again, it is a woman's issue,it is the safety of any woman that makes that detrmination. and what is worse.

No one will ever stop a termination of a pregnance if a termination is what it is decided. Not now, not ever in history.

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Re: Abortion

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Message 89 of 106

  Cheap shot not unexpected:   Overturning Row vs Wade, would not affect the choice one way or another if pregnancy was treated just like the personal nature of any medical need or procedure - at least not for those who are paying for their care even through private insurance

 

    (that is the better off dissing those who are less well off) and ignoring the real issue that some have spent the last few years attempting to cut one provider from the choices that any woman should be able to make for themselves.

 

     Why else is every repub demanding to defund only one heathcare provider - because they provide lower costs for services?  The GOP should be estatic that some health care provider has been able to reduce  costs to their patients...shouldn't they?   

 

     Only deniers of reality use the faux argument that "birth control" is cheap - but they can never bother to comprehend that not everyone is in their income level.    Nor that there has never been 100% effective medication - not one pharma is going to make that claim...ever!

 

      But wait, it gets better (?)...one state has gone so far off the rails on this issue that the Medical School in that state could lose it's accreditation to teach OB-GYN to physicians.     think about what that means...if you are capable of that!

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
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Re: Abortion

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Message 90 of 106

@Indianrock wrote:

Many of my Christian conservative friends seem to vote primarily on a candidate's stand on this issue, as if a single representative or even President can snap their fingers and make a change in abortion law.   In a recent conversation, one said that there are a large number of abortion-related deaths ( of women) even with legal abortions, which might tend to downplay the risks of overturning Roe v Wade and returning to the era of illegal abortions.

 

I'm wondering what the truth is here.  I hate the idea of abortion and think everything possible should be done to avoid it, including the willingness to have more taxes placed on me to subsidize adoption and things like child-care for women contemplating an abortion.   But I'm really wondering what would things be like if Roe v Wade were overturned.  Surely abortions would continue, just illegally, and we've all heard the horror stories of "back-alley" abortions.

 

 


That's quite a dilemma...

 

Yes, undoubtedly you will end up paying increased taxes to support children whose mother will not keep and care for them after birth.

 

It's also possible that the pregnant woman who is prohibited an abortion might well not care much at all about the healthy development of a pregnancy she doesn't want(especially if it's the result of rape) - therefore considerably raising the possibility of a child with mild to severe congenital deficiencies - another additional cost to you.

 

Total cost per child has been estimated at between $200 thousand and $500 thousand - per child - to make it to age 18 - depending upon whether the child has congenital/developmental problems...

 

It's also highly probable that you will end up paying more - in higher hospital charges -  for some of the emergency medical care for women who have complications from back alley abortions and have no means of paying.

 

It's widely known that a multiple dose of any of about a dozen different brands of birth control pills can be used as emergency contraception, which would drastically reduce the number of "back alley abortions".

It's far more than likely that if abortions and birth control pills are outlawed, that the black market will fill that niche quickly, and enrich those who provide illegal abortions, as well as smugglers of contraceptives and abortifacients - another group that would increase the tax load for additional law enforcement hires to (mostly unsuccessfully) attempt to interdict.

 

Abortion is not something you can ever have any hope of being able to legislate out of existence - nor will religious mandates have any significant effect - as history has repeatedly and amply demonstrated...

 

The written history of abortion is over 4000 years old - and it's total history is older yet  - it will not go away - ever.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

44>dolt45
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