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Re: Abortion

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Message 91 of 106

I will now try to explain as to why it is a woman's issue. 
I will try to put it in a crude manner.

Women:   A Coke machine.
Men"   a quarter.

Men" put quater in machine,  Woman produce a bottle of coke.

The intervention of that quater as we all know has become quite irrelevant. Therefore the decission to reproduce these days, is still a women's decission 
Now, if we are speaking about taking a life.
It entirely depends on when you think that Life is created. according to science it  cannot be called a life until the proper time has passed
You bet, all cells are a form of life, and yet, you walk on a grass field, it contains life. you kill a mosquito that is a life.
So, when the word Life is now seen in the eyes of many.  It is also, a workd that has that has different meanings to different people.
Therefore, let's all keep our own beleif on what is Life, but never try to impose that belief on others.

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Re: Abortion

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Message 92 of 106

Aside from any very valid considerations surrounding abortion is the ethical issue surrounding deliberate termination of life, ANY LIFE....by other life.  The issue extends beyond the human species all the way down to single celled LIFE.  Convention resolves that consideration at the point where the matter sustaining the life form using it is wholly inorganic.  Before that point is reached, ALL life that man knows of is sustained by the destruction of other life.  That fact makes us ALL predators.

 

Life itself AND every single particle of matter or energy that sustains life came from a single source....as far as we know.  The science of Man calls that source "The Big Bang".  Everything, no matter what, is composed of dust coming from that single source. The galaxy, the sun, the earth, the moon, that tree in your back yard AND that steak you just barbecued.  That fact makes you and me cannibals to one degree or another.  Every other form of life too, the exception has been noted above.

 

Lately it seems the universe resulting from the Big Bang we 'know' about may not be the only one AND the matter we 'think' it this one is made of may not be the only matter.  That in turn raises the question of how many 'Big Bangs' have happened and how many are yet to come.  See....it gets unmanageable pretty quick because there is no way to get our puny brain around something like that....not Einstein, not Hawking, not anybody human that I know of...at least to date.

 

So what's the point of all this in a topic about abortion.  Well...the point is that it IS the only point that has any real meaning.  In addition to being predators and cannibals to one degree or another, we are all hypocrites to one degree or another.  So...let's see now...at what point do you determine when it is or isn't justifiable to take another life?  That's a real question, not rhetorical.  The answer will tell everyone just how much of a hypocrite you really are.  And that's the real point, isn't it?

 

 

 

 

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Re: Abortion

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Message 93 of 106

@Panjandrum wrote:

Indianrock:  Thanks for the reply... I think if I'm going to respond to my friends who seem to believe that we're actually having more deaths with legal abortions than what we used to have when abortion was illegal

 

 

 

Perhaps you should ask your friend where they get their information?

 

Although recognized as an underestimation, the CDC has reported between zero and two annual maternal deaths from 1979–2004 in the U.S. due to complications of abortion.7

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2791734/


To put that into perspective with the situation before Roe v Wade,

Estimates of the number of illegal abortions in the 1950s and 1960s ranged from 200,000 to 1.2 million per year. One analysis, extrapolating from data from North Carolina, concluded that an estimated 829,000 illegal or self-induced abortions occurred in 1967.

One stark indication of the prevalence of illegal abortion was the death toll. In 1930, abortion was listed as the official cause of death for almost 2,700 women—nearly one-fifth (18%) of maternal deaths recorded in that year. The death toll had declined to just under 1,700 by 1940, and to just over 300 by 1950 (most likely because of the introduction of antibiotics in the 1940s, which permitted more effective treatment of the infections that frequently developed after illegal abortion). By 1965, the number of deaths due to illegal abortion had fallen to just under 200, but illegal abortion still accounted for 17% of all deaths attributed to pregnancy and childbirth that year. And these are just the number that were officially reported; the actual number was likely much higher.

 

Depriving women of reproductive services as Republicans demand will not end or even significantly reduce abortions. It will simply kill or disable more poor women. And make no mistake, it is ONLY the poor who are effected. The rich and middle class will always have safe abortion services available.

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Re: Abortion

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Message 94 of 106

@rker321 wrote:

I have always gotten upset when men try to give their opinion on a subject that I consider  a female only subject.

Being  also a pro choice person, I believe that decission to terminate a pregnancy is a difficult decissin for all females and it should be left to her, to make that decission.
If abortions were to become illegal, there will always be abortions, a woman that wants to terminate a pregnancy will find a wiay to terminate that pregnancy.
Of course in todays world abortions are probably the last option due to the fact that contraceptives are available. but, as a females, we all know that sometimes even when using contraceptives we find ourselves pregnant.
Therefore, it is the safety of the female that we should be concerned because abortions have existed since  the first female got pregnant and will continue to exist hopefully in small numbers.

 

I've always been a pro-choice supporter, though I am an active adoption advocate as well.

 

But, riker, please let us know when pregnacy becomes a female only subject.  Sperm doesn't grow on tree's ya know.  A man's right to be part of the decision making process is a reality.  When that ceases, so should a woman's right to seek support from a male.


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: Abortion

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Message 95 of 106

Indianrock:  Thanks for the reply... I think if I'm going to respond to my friends who seem to believe that we're actually having more deaths with legal abortions than what we used to have when abortion was illegal

 

 

 

Perhaps you should ask your friend where they get their information?

 

Although recognized as an underestimation, the CDC has reported between zero and two annual maternal deaths from 1979–2004 in the U.S. due to complications of abortion.7

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2791734/

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Re: Abortion

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Message 96 of 106

@rker321 wrote:

I have always gotten upset when men try to give their opinion on a subject that I consider  a female only subject.

Being  also a pro choice person, I believe that decission to terminate a pregnancy is a difficult decissin for all females and it should be left to her, to make that decission.
If abortions were to become illegal, there will always be abortions, a woman that wants to terminate a pregnancy will find a wiay to terminate that pregnancy.
Of course in todays world abortions are probably the last option due to the fact that contraceptives are available. but, as a females, we all know that sometimes even when using contraceptives we find ourselves pregnant.
Therefore, it is the safety of the female that we should be concerned because abortions have existed since the first female got pregnant and will continue to exist hopefully in small numbers.


I agree its a womens issue. but until that great day when only women are allowed to vote on womens reproductive rights and reproductive health care, i will continue to be a bck seat driver. fumbling opinions or not, I am on your side.

 

So it begins.
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Re: Abortion

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Message 97 of 106

@GailL1 wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:
   But I'm really wondering what would things be like if Roe v Wade were overturned.  Surely abortions would continue, just illegally, and we've all heard the horror stories of "back-alley" abortions.

 

 


"We've come a long way, Baby . . . . ."

 

Today, we have so much access to various types of contraception with a high effective rate, morning after pill (over the counter availability), even a medication (RU486) to terminate an unwanted pregnacy up to 8-weeks, that actual surgical abortions for just the elimination of an unwanted pregnancy should be minimal in number if women are knowledgeable about their bodies and what is available.

 

All of this could easily handled via a woman's personal physician without government being involve - or anybody else - (well, anybody who is not already involved - like the father or the parents of a minor child).  Education can also be done by a personal physician or counterpart.

 

The problem comes in when money to pay for services is paid for by somebody else - that opens up them having a say in the process - same as any other medical need.

 

I believe in the right to choose - but not just for this type of service.  Overturning Row vs Wade, would not affect the choice one way or another if pregnancy was treated just like the personal nature of any medical need or procedure - at least not for those who are paying for their care even through private insurance.

 

When others get involve in our individual medical lives by paying for services, then they can make the rules of coverage.

 

 


Roe VS Wade meant the state does not have the right to interfere with a woman's right to chose.  You can't be against RVW and for the right to chose. 

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Re: Abortion

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Message 98 of 106

Yet , wasn't it all Republican Men in Congress that made the recent Healthcare and Planned Parenthood proposal decisions ???

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Re: Abortion

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Message 99 of 106

I have always gotten upset when men try to give their opinion on a subject that I consider  a female only subject.

Being  also a pro choice person, I believe that decission to terminate a pregnancy is a difficult decissin for all females and it should be left to her, to make that decission.
If abortions were to become illegal, there will always be abortions, a woman that wants to terminate a pregnancy will find a wiay to terminate that pregnancy.
Of course in todays world abortions are probably the last option due to the fact that contraceptives are available. but, as a females, we all know that sometimes even when using contraceptives we find ourselves pregnant.
Therefore, it is the safety of the female that we should be concerned because abortions have existed since the first female got pregnant and will continue to exist hopefully in small numbers.

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Re: Abortion

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Message 100 of 106

@GailL1 wrote:

@Indianrock wrote:
   But I'm really wondering what would things be like if Roe v Wade were overturned.  Surely abortions would continue, just illegally, and we've all heard the horror stories of "back-alley" abortions.

 

 


"We've come a long way, Baby . . . . ."

 

The problem comes in when money to pay for services is paid for by somebody else - that opens up them having a say in the process - same as any other medical need.

 

I believe in the right to choose - but not just for this type of service.  Overturning Row vs Wade, would not affect the choice one way or another if pregnancy was treated just like the personal nature of any medical need or procedure - at least not for those who are paying for their care even through private insurance.

 

When others get involve in our individual medical lives by paying for services, then they can make the rules of coverage.

 

 

 

 

 

 


Gail - When the "other" getting involved is the Federal Government, it means the involvement should treat ALL those receiving services equally. The real " legal abortion" is the Hyde Amendment that makes treatment of poor people who have no other source of reproductive health care "inferIor" because they are denied LEGAL services available to women who get their care from facilities whose federal support comes in less obvious ways, like medical research and subsidies for medical educations and federally supported health insurance.

 

We are all involved in paying for DOD, but we do NOT allow pacifists to direct the activities of DOD to include only non-lethal weapons and negotiated settlements. Why should a minority of Americans views control how we fund health care? The whole notion of "We the People" as the ruling power in the USA is the antithesis of your view of SOME of those who pay get to decide WHO gets served.

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