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Honored Social Butterfly

A surtax for "The Wall"

Trump's border wall is projected to cost $70 Billion to build and $150 Million a year to maintain. Since Mexico is not paying for "the wall" and Trump is threatening to close down the government to get one, I propose we add a new line item to the 1040 form for a "wall surtax".  

 

Actually, we should have the forms printed as "Trump's Wall Surtax" on that line. 

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@Fishslayer777 wrote:
Brillant! Well thought out. Forget about Mexico for a minute.

Where safety and security is not an issue ... barriers, fences and walls are not needed. Where safety and security is an issue, show me where we do not build barriers, fences and walls?


Mountain sides, across wildlife migration paths, in watersheds and river flood plains, across private lands, across deserts....places like that. 

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@Richva

You missed the point, again or maybe you're just obtuse. Here... let me help and try and forget about Mexico just for a moment, I know it's hard but try just for a moment.

Where and when security is an issue, you know prisons, airports, nuclear facilities, ports, water treatment plants, critical infrastructure, area 51, military bases, research facilities, etc. ... show me where we do not build barriers, fences and walls?

Libs are nuttier than squirrel poop
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crickets

Libs are nuttier than squirrel poop
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Fishslayer777 wrote:
Brillant! Well thought out. Forget about Mexico for a minute.

Where safety and security is not an issue ... barriers, fences and walls are not needed. Where safety and security is an issue, show me where we do not build barriers, fences and walls?


Rich posted...

Mountain sides, across wildlife migration paths, in watersheds and river flood plains, across private lands, across deserts....places like that.

============================================

It that was true we would not have highways we have. Right?
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@KidBoy2 wrote:
@Fishslayer777 wrote:
Brillant! Well thought out. Forget about Mexico for a minute.

Where safety and security is not an issue ... barriers, fences and walls are not needed. Where safety and security is an issue, show me where we do not build barriers, fences and walls?


Rich posted...

Mountain sides, across wildlife migration paths, in watersheds and river flood plains, across private lands, across deserts....places like that.

============================================

It that was true we would not have highways we have. Right?

In the world of fallacious arguments, that is called a Faulty Comparison.

 

Roads are built to improve the economic outlook of the United States and an economic justification report is always required. They are built over the most practical topography.

 

The proposed (unpaid by Mexico) border wall would be build along a single path regardless of topography or effectiveness.  There has not been an economic study proving any benefits of such a wall. 

 

You are trying to compare two things which are not comparable. 

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@KidBoy2 wrote:
MIseker posted...

Sure sure they can go out and work in the 109 degree heat like it is here today and for every dollar they made they will lose $2 in food stamps where is the real incentive for these people to do this
So it begins.

=========================================

"for every dollar they made they will lose $2 in food stamps"...can you back that up?

" 109 degree heat" Like construction workers and people building our roads where it hotter.

We need a wall...its time..walls work.


We do not need a wall, it is not time, if walls worked, we could not need guards at prisons. 

Honored Social Butterfly

So it's guards and no wall or walls and no guards? Airports with screening without TSA agents or TSA agents and no screening? Nuclear facilities with walls and no guards or guards and no wall. Good fences make for good neighbors, but with Mexico we need a wall, a great wall, a great big wall, a great big wall with no trespassing signs.

Really?

You might need to re-think that one, just sayin'

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@Fishslayer777 wrote:
So it's guards and no wall or walls and no guards? Airports with screening without TSA agents or TSA agents and no screening? Nuclear facilities with walls and no guards or guards and no wall. Good fences make for good neighbors, but with Mexico we need a wall, a great wall, a great big wall, a great big wall with no trespassing signs.

Really?

You might need to re-think that one, just sayin'

Nope.  I got back from the border fence last night.  Miles of ugly Vietnam era helecopter landing panels stuck in the ground for miles while CBP agents in body armor rode all kinds of desert vehicles all other the place.  Ugly and ineffective. 

 

Trump lied about Mexico paying for the wall and has lied about how effective a wall is. If conservatives are going to make blanket statements like "walls work" I will continue to point out where they don't and why.  Seems a lot of effort to keep your crops from being picked and your chickens from being packed. 

Honored Social Butterfly

Rich posted...

Trump lied about Mexico paying for the wall and has lied about how effective a wall is. If conservatives are going to make blanket statements like "walls work" I will continue to point out where they don't and why. Seems a lot of effort to keep your crops from being picked and your chickens from being packed.

================================================
www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/22/homeland-security-secretary-border-walls-work-yuma-sector-...



Homeland Security secretary: Border walls work. Yuma sector proves it.

The bipartisan Secure Fence Act of 2006 — supported by then-Sens. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden and others — mandated the construction of hundreds of additional miles of secure fencing and infrastructure investments. Yuma sector was one of the first areas to receive infrastructure investments.


The bipartisan Secure Fence Act of 2006 — supported by then-Sens. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden

See it's not just conservatives that want to keep our country free.

www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/22/homeland-security-secretary-border-walls-work-yuma-sector-...


Border walls work and there are many links like the above one that, if you are interested, which I doubt you can read.

It's a lot more than picking...but you should know that. It's about drugs. It's about the cost to taxpayers for everything ... like medial...police ...safety of our citizens, etc., etc.

Have a good day!



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@KidBoy2 wrote:
Rich posted...

Homeland Security secretary: Border walls work. Yuma sector proves it.

The bipartisan Secure Fence Act of 2006 — supported by then-Sens. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden and others — mandated the construction of hundreds of additional miles of secure fencing and infrastructure investments. Yuma sector was one of the first areas to receive infrastructure investments.


The bipartisan Secure Fence Act of 2006 — supported by then-Sens. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden

See it's not just conservatives that want to keep our country free.

www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2017/08/22/homeland-security-secretary-border-walls-work-yuma-sector-...


Border walls work and there are many links like the above one that, if you are interested, which I doubt you can read.

It's a lot more than picking...but you should know that. It's about drugs. It's about the cost to taxpayers for everything ... like medial...police ...safety of our citizens, etc., etc.

Have a good day!




Fences work in some areas.  Blindly building a wall between these two borders is insane. Of course, that seems to be Trump's situation.  

Here is a good article in Foreign Policy Magazine about how stupid the idea is. 

 

The data show that fences don’t keep migrants out — they just keep them from going home.

 

An article in Forbes about how a border wall shows terrible leadership

Honored Social Butterfly

Rich posted..

Fences work in some areas. Blindly building a wall between these two borders is insane. Of course, that seems to be Trump's situation.
Here is a good article in Foreign Policy Magazine about how stupid the idea is.

The data show that fences don’t keep migrants out — they just keep them from going home.

An article in Forbes about how a border wall shows terrible leadership

====================================================
Tell that to then-Sens. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden. Not me!


The bipartisan Secure Fence Act of 2006 — supported by then-Sens. Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Joe Biden.. conservatives no!

See it's not just conservatives that want to keep our country free.

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The wall will be a great wall. It will be built. It will control the border and reduce the need to put our Border Agents in harm's way.

The Border Agents want the wall... so I'm all in.
Mexico doesn't want the wall.... so I'm all in.
Drug dealers don't want the wall.... so I'm all in.
Coyotes don't want the wall.... so I'm all in.
Lefty's don't want the wall .... so I'm all in.

I'm all in, just sayin'

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And Mexico will pay for it

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mandm 84 posted..

And Mexico will pay for it.

================================================

I agree.
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Fishslayer777 posted..


So it's guards and no wall or walls and no guards? Airports with screening without TSA agents or TSA agents and no screening? Nuclear facilities with walls and no guards or guards and no wall. Good fences make for good neighbors, but with Mexico we need a wall, a great wall, a great big wall, a great big wall with no trespassing signs.

Really?

You might need to re-think that one, just sayin'

==================================================

Good post!

Trying to be reasonable sometimes does not work.. Just saying.
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@KidBoy2 wrote:
Rich posted..

What do you think is preventing them from applying for those jobs now?

==================================================

They could apply but many do not want to do "that type of work" when they can get by living off government programs.

Fake news again. 

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@KidBoy2 wrote:
Rich posted..

What do you think is preventing them from applying for those jobs now?

==================================================

They could apply but many do not want to do "that type of work" when they can get by living off government programs.

Can you document people "living off of government programs" that are capable of doing this farm work? False claims KidBoy.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

The surtax for the wall is already here. You will begin to see it soon. I'm out here in the Central Valley of Old Mexico right now and word on the street is half the crops are rotting in the field because immigrants are afraid to come from Mexico and harvest the crops. This is the unintended consequence of being Politically Incorrect frightening people off who are willing to do the work that feeds this country.. last year my sister-in-law's son had over 200 people under him harvesting crops.. This year the biggest crew he's had is 50. Trump has already won and will hit you in your pocket with food prices.

So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly

Trump doesn't have to worry about produce prices , just 99% of America !!!

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@MIseker wrote:

The surtax for the wall is already here. You will begin to see it soon. I'm out here in the Central Valley of Old Mexico right now and word on the street is half the crops are rotting in the field because immigrants are afraid to come from Mexico and harvest the crops. This is the unintended consequence of being Politically Incorrect frightening people off who are willing to do the work that feeds this country.. last year my sister-in-law's son had over 200 people under him harvesting crops.. This year the biggest crew he's had is 50. Trump has already won and will hit you in your pocket with food prices.


You are correct. My state has large chill farms near the border. That is the main crop and was harvested by workers from Mexico who live in Mexico just a few miles away. The total crop has been reduced as the workers do not come and people in the US will not do that type of work. We now have some of the farmers obtaining land in Mexico and growing the crop there. They live in the US but their business is now in Mexico. We are told the crop in the US will get to be a fraction of what it was.

Honored Social Butterfly

I live in an agricultural area so I kinda have an idea how this will all go. Those good hardworking folks from Mexico and Guatemala will still come for the work, but will have to come legally and not be entitled to unlimited access to benefits. Right now they stay here and when they're not working and then go on government assistance. You may also see an increase in temporary housing for seasonal workers. Most of that has disappeared since the workers were buying or renting trailers.

In addition, many agricultural entities are currently able to utilize mechanical harvesting but have not done so because the initial expense is tough. Corporate farms do this sooner because they have the capital. Will prices rise? in the short term yes. Might see more frozen or canned food than fresh. Places that have 12 month growing seasons will not be affected because most of their labor is legal or will become legal. The co-op usually assists immigrant labor get work visas.


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@Fishslayer777 wrote:
I live in an agricultural area so I kinda have an idea how this will all go. Those good hardworking folks from Mexico and Guatemala will still come for the work, but will have to come legally and not be entitled to unlimited access to benefits. Right now they stay here and when they're not working and then go on government assistance. You may also see an increase in temporary housing for seasonal workers. Most of that has disappeared since the workers were buying or renting trailers.

In addition, many agricultural entities are currently able to utilize mechanical harvesting but have not done so because the initial expense is tough. Corporate farms do this sooner because they have the capital. Will prices rise? in the short term yes. Might see more frozen or canned food than fresh. Places that have 12 month growing seasons will not be affected because most of their labor is legal or will become legal. The co-op usually assists immigrant labor get work visas.


Please explain how the tax you propose will eliminate illegals working on produce farms in the U. S.   You are dreaming.


Man learns from history that man learns nothing from history.
Honored Social Butterfly

Well if they can't go on public assistance when they're not working they'll probably leave, unless of course they get work visas. Then... they can get other jobs during the off season.

I'm not dreaming.... and I care about these hard working people. However if they're latched onto the teat of American generosity, they're stealing from working people. They are a numerical minority, but they're real.

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@Fishslayer777 wrote:
Well if they can't go on public assistance when they're not working they'll probably leave, unless of course they get work visas. Then... they can get other jobs during the off season.

I'm not dreaming.... and I care about these hard working people. However if they're latched onto the teat of American generosity, they're stealing from working people. They are a numerical minority, but they're real.

Illegal aliens are not eligible for welfare look it up I repeat illegal aliens are not eligible for welfare I don't know when you are rwnjs going to understand that

So it begins.
Honored Social Butterfly

@Mlseker
Did you see the word "welfare" in my post? No cash support, if that's what you're suggesting.
https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Legal-and-Illegal-Immigrant-Households





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From CISFrom CIS


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@Fishslayer777 wrote:

From CISFrom CIS


Link please. I don't trust these figures

Honored Social Butterfly

Richva - The table fish presents comes from The Center for Immigration Studies, designated as a Hate Group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, who has an excellent record in making such ID's.

 

Basically, the "source" organization was establish to oppose immigration, legal and otherwise, and its "director" has a long history of making racist remarks. But the data show what Republicans want to see, so they don't bother to ask where it came from and how it was derived.

 

The fact illegal immigrants are barred from receiving most of the assistance the CIS claims are receiving such aid would make the whoe table suspect. There's also the fact the notation "full model" is unexplained, but one can assume its a model CIS designed to provide the results they were looking for.

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In my previous post

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@Fishslayer777 wrote:
In my previous post

OK. We will just assume this is MORE CIS fake news and move on.  

 

Welfare for illegals is illegal. This is an online survey not a study so the "illegals" had to have self responded to the anonymous survey. I think we can assume the validity of the findings. 

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