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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 31 of 66

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 

I have no idea how things happen in other nations but look at the problems with the VA healthcare system and look at the "war on poverty" run by our government and you might see that simply turning healthcare over to some bureaucrats in DC is no going to give us a Swedish system.


"I have no idea what I am comparing this to but I can point to a kludged system and see it does not work so all other systems must not work" The logic in this is......................conservative. 

 

Conservatives do love simple solutions to complex problems so if it is going to take more than a bumper sticker to explain how we get from an overpriced and underperforming system to one that is up to par with the rest of the world, they are not interested.  I am constantly amazed that conservatives have no faith in the ability of America to accomplish anything. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/07/01/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-cana...


I can't image a more simple answer than, "Let the government run everything" - and that is not a Conservative solution.


RK  are you still in Boca ?   pleae let us know that  you are ok

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 32 of 66

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 

I have no idea how things happen in other nations but look at the problems with the VA healthcare system and look at the "war on poverty" run by our government and you might see that simply turning healthcare over to some bureaucrats in DC is no going to give us a Swedish system.


"I have no idea what I am comparing this to but I can point to a kludged system and see it does not work so all other systems must not work" The logic in this is......................conservative. 

 

Conservatives do love simple solutions to complex problems so if it is going to take more than a bumper sticker to explain how we get from an overpriced and underperforming system to one that is up to par with the rest of the world, they are not interested.  I am constantly amazed that conservatives have no faith in the ability of America to accomplish anything. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/07/01/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-cana...


I can't image a more simple answer than, "Let the government run everything" - and that is not a Conservative solution.

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 33 of 66

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 


It isn't. We almost had a great improvement when the Congress sent tort reform legislation to Clinton - but he vetoed it.

 

I have no idea how things happen in other nations but look at the problems with the VA healthcare system and look at the "war on poverty" run by our government and you might see that simply turning healthcare over to some bureaucrats in DC is no going to give us a Swedish system.


The fact that you are comparing our health care systems. Medicare, Triucare etc with a National Health Care system shows the ignorance of what a National Health Care system that other nations have.
I suggest that you spend sometime in reading the health care system that those countries have and then understand the differences. 

by the way each country that has a National Health Care system will be different in each country and taylored to the needs of those countries, and please, pretty please do not call a National Health Care system socialized medicine because it only shows how little you know of what a National Health Care syste is.


If the government runs the healthcare system and that isn't socialized medicine - what is??

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 34 of 66

@MIseker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

That "kick the can down the road" idea makes the assumption that socialized medicine in inevitable. Granted, had the last election gone a different way it might well have happened.

 

But remember, the one who lost ran on socialized medicine and the one that won didn't. So, maybe it isn't inevitable.


I need someone to explain to me why its bad for the US to have the best healthcare system in the world. Call it what you want..the US is far from the best. Is there a reason US citizens dont deserve it?

 


It isn't. We almost had a great improvement when the Congress sent tort reform legislation to Clinton - but he vetoed it.

 

I have no idea how things happen in other nations but look at the problems with the VA healthcare system and look at the "war on poverty" run by our government and you might see that simply turning healthcare over to some bureaucrats in DC is no going to give us a Swedish system.


uh huh.. but im  the crazy neomarxist IWW member that thinks those politicians need to go and we elect pols like the swedes?. so who did you just say the bad guy really is here?

 

Edit: toss in that tort reform once we have medicare for all. those law suits have to  cover heath care costs for life. once thats gone, so does the cost of a lawsuit. 

this is a good reson to be against tort reform..yeah cripple em and dump em. 


I have no idea where you got the idea that those suits cover healthcare for life. 

 

If we get Swedish pols elected and they give us a Swedish government and we all act like responsible Swedes - O.K. But, that is a lot of "ands".

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 35 of 66

@GailL1 wrote:

rk9152 is talking about a "national" system; the Canadian system is NOT a national system -

the provinces/territories actually run their program - while everybody get that "medically necessary and hospital physician services", any other coverage is defined by the provinces/territories.

 

It seems even our liberal national legislators don't want to let go of this power -

Personally, I like more local control.

 

We can't even define what is medically necessary here.  We can't even determine what is best practices, including cost, in the medically necessary realm.  Until we start rating care, including cost, as other system do, we will continue to have the highest cost.

 

I have always said that until the American people understand exactly what a national health care system means, they don't really understand it; therefore how can they even make a decision about it.  Without controlling cost, it would be no better than what we have now -

 

 

 


Seems to me, the two of you are talking about completely different systems -

It is managed at the province level but the overall system operates under the same mandate and uses the same processes. 

 

To say we need to stay with the horribly expensive and ineffective system of private insurers because we aren't smart enough to understand a different system is a bit elitist. 

 

I agree we are talking about two different systems. He is talking about the system he admits he does not know anything about and I am talking about the system used by every other developed nation in the world. 

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 36 of 66

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 

I have no idea how things happen in other nations but look at the problems with the VA healthcare system and look at the "war on poverty" run by our government and you might see that simply turning healthcare over to some bureaucrats in DC is no going to give us a Swedish system.


"I have no idea what I am comparing this to but I can point to a kludged system and see it does not work so all other systems must not work" The logic in this is......................conservative. 

 

Conservatives do love simple solutions to complex problems so if it is going to take more than a bumper sticker to explain how we get from an overpriced and underperforming system to one that is up to par with the rest of the world, they are not interested.  I am constantly amazed that conservatives have no faith in the ability of America to accomplish anything. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/07/01/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-cana...


Seems to me, the two of you are talking about completely different systems -

rk9152 is talking about a "national" system; the Canadian system is NOT a national system -

the provinces/territories actually run their program - while everybody get that "medically necessary and hospital physician services", any other coverage is defined by the provinces/territories.

 

It seems even our liberal national legislators don't want to let go of this power -

Personally, I like more local control.

 

We can't even define what is medically necessary here.  We can't even determine what is best practices, including cost, in the medically necessary realm.  Until we start rating care, including cost, as other system do, we will continue to have the highest cost.

 

I have always said that until the American people understand exactly what a national health care system means, they don't really understand it; therefore how can they even make a decision about it.  Without controlling cost, it would be no better than what we have now -

 

 

 


* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 37 of 66

@rk9152 wrote:

 

I have no idea how things happen in other nations but look at the problems with the VA healthcare system and look at the "war on poverty" run by our government and you might see that simply turning healthcare over to some bureaucrats in DC is no going to give us a Swedish system.


"I have no idea what I am comparing this to but I can point to a kludged system and see it does not work so all other systems must not work" The logic in this is......................conservative. 

 

Conservatives do love simple solutions to complex problems so if it is going to take more than a bumper sticker to explain how we get from an overpriced and underperforming system to one that is up to par with the rest of the world, they are not interested.  I am constantly amazed that conservatives have no faith in the ability of America to accomplish anything. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/07/01/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-cana...

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 38 of 66

Miseker wrote

Edit: toss in that tort reform once we have medicare for all. those law suits have to cover heath care costs for life. once thats gone, so does the cost of a lawsuit.
this is a good reson to be against tort reform..yeah cripple em and dump em.

 

-------------------------------------------

Oh, yea - it is so easy to sue the government.

Medicare currently has several class action lawsuits against it.  You know how much those lawyers make if the decision goes against the government. Think these lawyers would continue to service these type of actions if their bounty is constrained.


* * * * It's Always Something . . . Roseanne Roseannadanna
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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 39 of 66

@rk9152 wrote:

 


It isn't. We almost had a great improvement when the Congress sent tort reform legislation to Clinton - but he vetoed it.

 

I have no idea how things happen in other nations but look at the problems with the VA healthcare system and look at the "war on poverty" run by our government and you might see that simply turning healthcare over to some bureaucrats in DC is no going to give us a Swedish system.


The fact that you are comparing our health care systems. Medicare, Triucare etc with a National Health Care system shows the ignorance of what a National Health Care system that other nations have.
I suggest that you spend sometime in reading the health care system that those countries have and then understand the differences. 

by the way each country that has a National Health Care system will be different in each country and taylored to the needs of those countries, and please, pretty please do not call a National Health Care system socialized medicine because it only shows how little you know of what a National Health Care syste is.

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 40 of 66

@rk9152 wrote:

@MIseker wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

That "kick the can down the road" idea makes the assumption that socialized medicine in inevitable. Granted, had the last election gone a different way it might well have happened.

 

But remember, the one who lost ran on socialized medicine and the one that won didn't. So, maybe it isn't inevitable.


I need someone to explain to me why its bad for the US to have the best healthcare system in the world. Call it what you want..the US is far from the best. Is there a reason US citizens dont deserve it?

 


It isn't. We almost had a great improvement when the Congress sent tort reform legislation to Clinton - but he vetoed it.

 

I have no idea how things happen in other nations but look at the problems with the VA healthcare system and look at the "war on poverty" run by our government and you might see that simply turning healthcare over to some bureaucrats in DC is no going to give us a Swedish system.


uh huh.. but im  the crazy neomarxist IWW member that thinks those politicians need to go and we elect pols like the swedes?. so who did you just say the bad guy really is here?

 

Edit: toss in that tort reform once we have medicare for all. those law suits have to  cover heath care costs for life. once thats gone, so does the cost of a lawsuit. 

this is a good reson to be against tort reform..yeah cripple em and dump em. 

So it begins.
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