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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 21 of 66

@rk9152 wrote:

@ChasKy53 wrote:

 


Very well and simply explained.

 

I too wish that conservatives would listen to their pocketbooks and the worse outcomes of our system of health care compared to what a medicare for all type plan would bring. Their misinterpretation of it being 'socialism', "government-run", or "free health care" also hinders their thinking on this.


I would suggest that a look at Obamacare does cause one to develop negative thoughts about socialized medicine and government run healthcare. You mentioned "free health care" - I agree, there is no such a thing as "free" but isn't all the people getting health care "free" one of the selling points of Obamacare?

"Obamacare" is not "socialized medicine" and "government run healthcare".  And no, free health care is not one of the selling points of Obamacare. Medicaid was already in place and subsidies are not "free health care".

 

How about the VA? Imagine a situation like that covering all of our healthcare. Remember, under government control people falsified documents and needed care was not delivered. And yet, when all that was found out - it took an Act of Congress to fire the people involved. And that was the SESs, the GSs were untouchable. Is that a system that leads to efficiency and good service??


'Medicare for all' would not be like the VA so using it as an example is moot. But nice try though, nice try, but lame.


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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 22 of 66

@ChasKy53 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

 

If not socialized (government run) medicine - what is your vision.


Thanks for the good wishes.

Government paid is a bit different than government run. Like Obamacare, the government puts in minimum standards of what is covered. The government collects the premiums and subsidizes the difference with taxes. The government pays the bills.  I am forever bewildered by the conservatives war cry of socialist on these things when they prove to work so well. I have yet to hear the cry of socialism when we discuss our approach to the military. 

 

The government has the patient's good at its core. The private insurer has its stockholders at its core. We can both Google hundreds of examples of private companies hurting their customers for bonuses.  

 

In addition, no conservative here has pointed to a single payer model  to say how much worse it would be.  

 

Finally, if they could, why would we pick the worse model to adopt?

 

We have worse outcomes and higher costs.  I really wish conservatives would start listening to their pocketbooks instead of their bumper stickers. 


Very well and simply explained.

 

I too wish that conservatives would listen to their pocketbooks and the worse outcomes of our system of health care compared to what a medicare for all type plan would bring. Their misinterpretation of it being 'socialism', "government-run", or "free health care" also hinders their thinking on this.


I would suggest that a look at Obamacare does cause one to develop negative thoughts about socialized medicine and government run healthcare. You mentioned "free health care" - I agree, there is no such a thing as "free" but isn't all the people getting health care "free" one of the selling points of Obamacare?

 

How about the VA? Imagine a situation like that covering all of our healthcare. Remember, under government control people falsified documents and needed care was not delivered. And yet, when all that was found out - it took an Act of Congress to fire the people involved. And that was the SESs, the GSs were untouchable. Is that a system that leads to efficiency and good service??

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 23 of 66

@Richva wrote:

 

If not socialized (government run) medicine - what is your vision.


Thanks for the good wishes.

Government paid is a bit different than government run. Like Obamacare, the government puts in minimum standards of what is covered. The government collects the premiums and subsidizes the difference with taxes. The government pays the bills.  I am forever bewildered by the conservatives war cry of socialist on these things when they prove to work so well. I have yet to hear the cry of socialism when we discuss our approach to the military. 

 

The government has the patient's good at its core. The private insurer has its stockholders at its core. We can both Google hundreds of examples of private companies hurting their customers for bonuses.  

 

In addition, no conservative here has pointed to a single payer model  to say how much worse it would be.  

 

Finally, if they could, why would we pick the worse model to adopt?

 

We have worse outcomes and higher costs.  I really wish conservatives would start listening to their pocketbooks instead of their bumper stickers. 


I'm going to stick with government run. You said, "Government paid is a bit different than government run." To which  say, "Surely you jest". Government paid does mean government run.

 

BTW Irma shifted probably a max of 30 miles to the east and it made all the difference to us here.

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 24 of 66

@Richva wrote:

 

If not socialized (government run) medicine - what is your vision.


Thanks for the good wishes.

Government paid is a bit different than government run. Like Obamacare, the government puts in minimum standards of what is covered. The government collects the premiums and subsidizes the difference with taxes. The government pays the bills.  I am forever bewildered by the conservatives war cry of socialist on these things when they prove to work so well. I have yet to hear the cry of socialism when we discuss our approach to the military. 

 

The government has the patient's good at its core. The private insurer has its stockholders at its core. We can both Google hundreds of examples of private companies hurting their customers for bonuses.  

 

In addition, no conservative here has pointed to a single payer model  to say how much worse it would be.  

 

Finally, if they could, why would we pick the worse model to adopt?

 

We have worse outcomes and higher costs.  I really wish conservatives would start listening to their pocketbooks instead of their bumper stickers. 


Very well and simply explained.

 

I too wish that conservatives would listen to their pocketbooks and the worse outcomes of our system of health care compared to what a medicare for all type plan would bring. Their misinterpretation of it being 'socialism', "government-run", or "free health care" also hinders their thinking on this.


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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 25 of 66

 

If not socialized (government run) medicine - what is your vision.


Thanks for the good wishes.

Government paid is a bit different than government run. Like Obamacare, the government puts in minimum standards of what is covered. The government collects the premiums and subsidizes the difference with taxes. The government pays the bills.  I am forever bewildered by the conservatives war cry of socialist on these things when they prove to work so well. I have yet to hear the cry of socialism when we discuss our approach to the military. 

 

The government has the patient's good at its core. The private insurer has its stockholders at its core. We can both Google hundreds of examples of private companies hurting their customers for bonuses.  

 

In addition, no conservative here has pointed to a single payer model  to say how much worse it would be.  

 

Finally, if they could, why would we pick the worse model to adopt?

 

We have worse outcomes and higher costs.  I really wish conservatives would start listening to their pocketbooks instead of their bumper stickers. 

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 26 of 66

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

I can't image a more simple answer than, "Let the government run everything" - and that is not a Conservative solution.


Nor a Liberal solution.   Us liberals like to look at what is being done and then what the outcomes are.  If private insurance is the best then it will have lower costs and better outcomes. Since it has neither, we see conservatives falling back on bumper sticker accusations.  

(Good luck in the storm, old friend)


Thanks for the good wishes.

 

If not socialized (government run) medicine - what is your vision.

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 27 of 66

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


Hernando County, north of Tampa Bay. It should be a fun night. And, who knows when the electric will return once it is lost.


Stay safe, you should have driven north and came all the way to Pensacola. it is very nice here now.


Well, you never invited me. So, wattaya gonna do??

 

The thing has shifted a wee bit east which is good for us. 

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 28 of 66

@rk9152 wrote:

I can't image a more simple answer than, "Let the government run everything" - and that is not a Conservative solution.


Nor a Liberal solution.   Us liberals like to look at what is being done and then what the outcomes are.  If private insurance is the best then it will have lower costs and better outcomes. Since it has neither, we see conservatives falling back on bumper sticker accusations.  

(Good luck in the storm, old friend)

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 29 of 66

@rk9152 wrote:


Hernando County, north of Tampa Bay. It should be a fun night. And, who knows when the electric will return once it is lost.


Stay safe, you should have driven north and came all the way to Pensacola. it is very nice here now.

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Re: A path to single payer?

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Message 30 of 66

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

 

I have no idea how things happen in other nations but look at the problems with the VA healthcare system and look at the "war on poverty" run by our government and you might see that simply turning healthcare over to some bureaucrats in DC is no going to give us a Swedish system.


"I have no idea what I am comparing this to but I can point to a kludged system and see it does not work so all other systems must not work" The logic in this is......................conservative. 

 

Conservatives do love simple solutions to complex problems so if it is going to take more than a bumper sticker to explain how we get from an overpriced and underperforming system to one that is up to par with the rest of the world, they are not interested.  I am constantly amazed that conservatives have no faith in the ability of America to accomplish anything. 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2012/07/01/everything-you-ever-wanted-to-know-about-cana...


I can't image a more simple answer than, "Let the government run everything" - and that is not a Conservative solution.


RK  are you still in Boca ?   pleae let us know that  you are ok


Hernando County, north of Tampa Bay. It should be a fun night. And, who knows when the electric will return once it is lost.

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