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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 21 of 34

@sp362 wrote:

TxGrandpa,

 

Good job taking things out of context.  You are ignoring the fact that four states talked about slavery directly.  (You also seem to be ignoring the fact that South Carolina fired the first shot).

 

McKim's personal beliefs have little to do with actual history.  As a point, he is claiming that slavery was on the wane prior to the war, when in fact the number of slaves increased steadily.

 

Maybe you need to read some books from historians instead of those promoting some kind of lost cause narrative.

 

 


There are some who wouldn't let facts interfere with making a good argument.  What I posted is not out of context, but the actual cause of the other states seceding.  South Carolina firing the first shot is what is out of context.

 

I don't deal in lost causes, but factual history.  You apparently are only posting opinion.  And I read all sides from historian before making an opinion.  If it wasn't for state's rights then why did the Confederate preamble to their constitution stress " individual states"

 

Perhaps you should read the book before responding with a preconceived opinion?  You have provided no documentation but plenty of opinion.

 

Bye.

 

 

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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 22 of 34

@Roxanna35 wrote:

It seems to me that you are correct in your post. we all tend to judge past history based on todays mores.
The only thing that I say is that any soldier from any war would have written that letter or account. 
The Civil Was should be taught in schools with a more intensity that it seem to be done presently.
And any statute or historical events of this war, in my view should be in museums to be admired and to be able to learn from them. I still do not understand as to why in many areas of the South the Confederate flag needs to be flown or shown in every corner or the back of a truck by many, What do they mean to say by that?


And I don't believe that the Civil War should be taught more intensively, just that it helps make us what we are today as one nation.   I also believe that today there are too many misconceptions about the reasons it started, mostly because of all the innuendo circulated by those who won't bother to study documentation from the past and present day bias.  But what is important the aftermath proved the doctrine that we are one nation.  Even at that there are those who appear to be intent to split us apart.

 

In my opinion those that empathize our differences are doing more harm than good.

 

By the way, I haven't seen any Confederate flags flown around here, nor on pick-up trucks.  Plenty of American flags!!!  But my main gripe is those monster pickup blocking views everywhere.

 

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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 23 of 34

TxGrandpa,

 

Good job taking things out of context.  You are ignoring the fact that four states talked about slavery directly.  (You also seem to be ignoring the fact that South Carolina fired the first shot).

 

McKim's personal beliefs have little to do with actual history.  As a point, he is claiming that slavery was on the wane prior to the war, when in fact the number of slaves increased steadily.

 

Maybe you need to read some books from historians instead of those promoting some kind of lost cause narrative.

 

 

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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 24 of 34

@sp362 wrote:

 

By claiming that the war was NOT about slavery, you are trying to use current beliefs to explain past acts, instead of looking at the acts themselves.


Can you document what you posted?  The U.S. Constitution did not forbid slavery, in fact provisions was factored in the document.  It wasn't until amendments after the Civil War that it was prohibited.  You are the one attempting to current thinking yourself.

 

Only four states, Texas, Mississippi, Georgia, and South Carolina, mentioned slavery as a reason for seceding from the union.

 

The Confederacy Constitution generally followed that of the U.S. Constitution with few differences in wording.  However the general principles are comparable.  The southern preamble was different in that it had this clause inserted " each state acting in its sovereign and independent character" indicating that each was sovereign in their own right.

 

But it is clear that you didn't read the book referred to by following the link to the book itself.  There is much misconceptions today that are based more on regional bias.

 

Have a good afternoon.

 

 

 

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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 25 of 34

I believe the diary entry provides insight on the thinking of one man who lived during the era and chose to fight for his state, rather than his country, and his rationalizations thereof.  It stands as what it is, the thoughts and opinion of one man who ultimately chose the 'other side'.  Was he wrong in his reasoning?  What he right?  We cannot argue with this man, he is dead.  The issue of slavery was no less divisive than it is today; indeed, it was more so, since half the nation abandoned their country.

 

His diary was published in 1910; the Jim Crow era started to take hold in 1904.  So, does that hold significance?  We will never know.  Again, the man is dead.   Regardless, we cannot hold the thoughts, beliefs, and morals of the past to the standards of today, just as some of today's standards will not withstand the scrutiny of future generations.

 

The Confederate monuments, memorials, place names erected during the Jim Crow era need to go, because that era existed for one reason, the segregation of white and black and the continued subjugation of the black man.  That being said, another interesting voice from the past is Robert Lee.  Plenty has been written about how he, according to his writings, opposed any monuments or memorials to the Confederate cause.  He also opposed the preservation of the battlefields.  Here's one such article.

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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 26 of 34

TxGrandpa2 wrote:

"Additionally it is an insight that the states seceded, and fought more for states rights than in defense of slavery.  State's rights was a strong belief in the South, and to some extent still is.

 

The biggest problem on this forum is that posters are judging the past based on thinking today and not on the times discussed.  That thinking then was on states rights, with the north basing their thinking on slavery."

 

The beliefs of ONE individual alive at the time show their beliefs, not the true history of what happened.  Claiming that the war was not about slavery is ignoring the fact that states wrote that one of the reasons they were seceding from the Union was over slavery.

 

Also, his basic logic that he is proposing doesn't line up with actual facts.  I know he believed it.  There were also German Soldiers who believed until their dying day that Germany was the aggrieved country.  Just because a person believes something, doesn't make it true.  Trying to use these beliefs as actual fact is what turns something into revisionist history.

 

By claiming that the war was NOT about slavery, you are trying to use current beliefs to explain past acts, instead of looking at the acts themselves.

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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 27 of 34

@TxGrandpa2   It seems to me that you are correct in your post. we all tend to judge past history based on todays mores.
The only thing that I say is that any soldier from any war would have written that letter or account. 
The Civil Was should be taught in schools with a more intensity that it seem to be done presently.
And any statute or historical events of this war, in my view should be in museums to be admired and to be able to learn from them. I still do not understand as to why in many areas of the South the Confederate flag needs to be flown or shown in every corner or the back of a truck by many, What do they mean to say by that?

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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 28 of 34

@Roxanna35 wrote:

@TxGrandpa2    I tried to sey that. and my point is that the letter of a soldier that is facing death is a letter that could have been written by any soldier in any war. as tragic that it was. Wars produce those emotions in the people that know or think that they won't survive.
That is why I asked as to why the post.? To indicate what.? that the soldier was a man serving what he thought was correct? All soldiers do.
So, why the post, to make us think that the soldiers in the South actually suffered more than the soldiers in the NOrth?
So what is the purpose of the post.?


First I believe that Gail posted it since it reveals the feelings of a soldier who chose to fight for his country.  Actually his state since at the time there appears to have been more loyalty to the state (carried over from colonial days) than the country.

 

Additionally it is an insight that the states seceded, and fought more for states rights than in defense of slavery.  State's rights was a strong belief in the South, and to some extent still is.

 

The biggest problem on this forum is that posters are judging the past based on thinking today and not on the times discussed.  That thinking then was on states rights, with the north basing their thinking on slavery.

 

 

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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 29 of 34

@TxGrandpa2    I tried to sey that. and my point is that the letter of a soldier that is facing death is a letter that could have been written by any soldier in any war. as tragic that it was. Wars produce those emotions in the people that know or think that they won't survive.
That is why I asked as to why the post.? To indicate what.? that the soldier was a man serving what he thought was correct? All soldiers do.
So, why the post, to make us think that the soldiers in the South actually suffered more than the soldiers in the NOrth?
So what is the purpose of the post.?

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Re: A DIARY: HISTORY DIRECTLY FROM ONE WHO LIVED IT

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Message 30 of 34

@GailL1 wrote:

It is always nice to read something written actually during a time in our history.

It is different than hearing historian or investigatory experts explain it as they see it.

 


 

Yes, it is interesting to read a contemporary account from someone from the South (not actually but from a border state with mixed opinion) at the time events were happening.

 

Of course on a discussion group such as this it is met with opinionated bias  rather than attempts to consider.  Even the author himself attempted to present the book from the standpoint of the soldier and why he was serving.

 

I doubt that any of the posters bothered to read the book from the standpoint of the author (or at all), but from their own preconceived opinions, and of course one injecting Trump into the discussion.

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