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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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@Fishslayer777 wrote:
EV are the future for some applications. Options are good. Keep in mind with a fast increase in electric vehicles, our air quality will go down.

The exhaust gas pollutants out a new vehicle tailpipe are vastly less than power plant... especially the older ones plants. A corresponding move to cleaner NG in the short term will help... especially in urban areas where EV will shine.

Adding transportation burden onto our existing electrical infrastructure will be costly.

For rural areas I'd like to see the EV's as back up/reserve for solar or wind on a farm or ranch, which in turn can be used to back feed the grid when not in use or as needed.

In West Virginia, which uses coal fired plants, the carbon footprint of an electric vehicle is worse than a gasoline powered car.  In New Mexico, which is rapidly upgrading to solar, there is no comparison.  If your state is not burning coal to create electricity, you will have a lower carbon footprint in an EV. 

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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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   This is why I love the Internet.    https://afdc.energy.gov/laws/all?state=MI

 

   The rebates / tax cuts that are funding this expansion are accessible, if only some of the naysayers would read before complaining.

 

    This is not Foxconn!

PRO-LIFE is Affordable Healthcare for ALL .
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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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Message 3 of 14
EV are the future for some applications. Options are good. Keep in mind with a fast increase in electric vehicles, our air quality will go down.

The exhaust gas pollutants out a new vehicle tailpipe are vastly less than power plant... especially the older ones plants. A corresponding move to cleaner NG in the short term will help... especially in urban areas where EV will shine.

Adding transportation burden onto our existing electrical infrastructure will be costly.

For rural areas I'd like to see the EV's as back up/reserve for solar or wind on a farm or ranch, which in turn can be used to back feed the grid when not in use or as needed.

"The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile "
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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Batteries are located on the bottom of the car and weigh roughly 1000 pounds. "Quick charges" shortens any battery life so don't always quick charge. Maybe someone has looked into the possibility of having quick "change outs" of battery packs at gas stations with some automated equipment to emulate the time spent fueling up with conventional cars?

 

We had the same problems when people were going from horse and carriage to cars!


Israel had places you could drive in and swap out your battery. With the speed at which you can now charge, that turned out to be unnecessary. 

 

The quick charge is better correlated with the capability of the cable to the car to the size of the hose for gasoline. Filling a conventional gas tank through a straw rather than a standard gas pump hose does not lengthen the life of a conventional engine So charging from a super charger has no more effect on the life of an electric car battery  than using a 110 household plug. 

 

You are absolutely correct in that we had the same problems converting from horses to automobiles. 


You are wrong on your hose analogy since the battery chemistry is the ruling entity. Although battery technology is improving, there is a maximum charge rate (because of heating) that will allow the battery to charge without destroying the battery.

 

Charging an EV will always take longer than filling a tank, and the battery will always deliver less energy per weight than fossil fuel. Breaking the rule of law and forcing ultra-fast charging adds stress, even if the battery is designed for such a purpose. We must keep in mind that a battery is sluggish in nature. Like an aging man, its physical condition becomes less ideal with use and age. So is the ability to fast-charge.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers


You are correct.  Using a super charger often does degrade battery life.  It does not appear to degrade it significantly.  I would relate it much to the fact that driving any car over 55 MPH lowers your gas mileage.  Most people only use super chargers when travelling and have installed higher capacity outlets in their garages. 

 

 

https://www.vehiclesuggest.com/tesla-supercharger-effect-on-battery-life-does-it-degrade-battery-lif...

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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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Message 5 of 14

Apparently they are doing it to meet global demand. But even here, EV sales increased more than 80% in 2018. Most of that was Tesla. We just got a 12 stall charging station for Teslas at a nearby shopping center.

 

Anyhoo, I live in a congested uber liberal county. I have 19 changing stations within about five miles of my house.  Most have capacity to charge two cars at once. Tesla superstation is the exception.  

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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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Message 6 of 14

@Richva wrote:

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Batteries are located on the bottom of the car and weigh roughly 1000 pounds. "Quick charges" shortens any battery life so don't always quick charge. Maybe someone has looked into the possibility of having quick "change outs" of battery packs at gas stations with some automated equipment to emulate the time spent fueling up with conventional cars?

 

We had the same problems when people were going from horse and carriage to cars!


Israel had places you could drive in and swap out your battery. With the speed at which you can now charge, that turned out to be unnecessary. 

 

The quick charge is better correlated with the capability of the cable to the car to the size of the hose for gasoline. Filling a conventional gas tank through a straw rather than a standard gas pump hose does not lengthen the life of a conventional engine So charging from a super charger has no more effect on the life of an electric car battery  than using a 110 household plug. 

 

You are absolutely correct in that we had the same problems converting from horses to automobiles. 


You are wrong on your hose analogy since the battery chemistry is the ruling entity. Although battery technology is improving, there is a maximum charge rate (because of heating) that will allow the battery to charge without destroying the battery.

 

Charging an EV will always take longer than filling a tank, and the battery will always deliver less energy per weight than fossil fuel. Breaking the rule of law and forcing ultra-fast charging adds stress, even if the battery is designed for such a purpose. We must keep in mind that a battery is sluggish in nature. Like an aging man, its physical condition becomes less ideal with use and age. So is the ability to fast-charge.

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/ultra_fast_chargers

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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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Message 7 of 14

@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Batteries are located on the bottom of the car and weigh roughly 1000 pounds. "Quick charges" shortens any battery life so don't always quick charge. Maybe someone has looked into the possibility of having quick "change outs" of battery packs at gas stations with some automated equipment to emulate the time spent fueling up with conventional cars?

 

We had the same problems when people were going from horse and carriage to cars!


Israel had places you could drive in and swap out your battery. With the speed at which you can now charge, that turned out to be unnecessary. 

 

The quick charge is better correlated with the capability of the cable to the car to the size of the hose for gasoline. Filling a conventional gas tank through a straw rather than a standard gas pump hose does not lengthen the life of a conventional engine So charging from a super charger has no more effect on the life of an electric car battery  than using a 110 household plug. 

 

You are absolutely correct in that we had the same problems converting from horses to automobiles. 

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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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Message 8 of 14

@Richva wrote:

@GailL1 wrote:

@Richva 

No, it is not dead - in fact many of the foreign makers in the SE are heading forward  creating and marketing not only a few economical ones but also those of luxury and a few going into larger vehicles - trucks / SUVs.

You have to give people what they want to drive - size, use, features - that's the utilitarian use of motor vehicles.    If the lucrative tax deduction is gone - they have to be sold on their own merit and use - functionality.

 

We just got a big foreign EV battery maker here - lots of money being invested - will be hiring about 2000 people in a suburb of Atlanta - Jackson County.

 

How many charging stations do you have in your state?  Are they conveniently located?

 

 


"Super" charging stations are located every few hundred miles on major roads for fast recharge (300 miles/hour) for travellers.  Several private companies have located charging stations in malls and shopping centers for recharge.  RV parks usually have heavy duty outlets also. 

 

Electric cars can recharge using almost any outlet.  The difference is how long it takes. Many owners have installed higher capacity outlets in their garages and plug in whenever home. 


Batteries are located on the bottom of the car and weigh roughly 1000 pounds. "Quick charges" shortens any battery life so don't always quick charge. Maybe someone has looked into the possibility of having quick "change outs" of battery packs at gas stations with some automated equipment to emulate the time spent fueling up with conventional cars?

 

We had the same problems when people were going from horse and carriage to cars!

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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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Message 9 of 14

WEST COAST ELECTRIC HIGHWAY

The “West Coast Electric Highway” is an extensive network of electric vehicle (EV) DC fast charging stations located every 25 to 50 miles along Interstate 5 and other major roadways in the Pacific Northwest. The Washington State Department of Transportation leads the charge on the Washington segment, the Oregon Department of Transportation heads up the Oregon segment, and the California segment is coordinated by a Governor’s Office interagency group.

The west coast has a robust EV charging network with thousands of Level 2 charging pedestals and dozens of DC fast chargers.

http://www.westcoastgreenhighway.com/electrichighways.htm

 

In 1965 I visited the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.  The parking lot was full of electric plug ins to keep fluids from freezing, and as I was told, tires from going square.  People owning EVs have home chargers and with time public charging stations will be abundant.  This pic is of a  Safeway lot in Alaska.  It is not difficult to imagine EV chargers there also.

Parks hwy and Glenn hwy audio tour-01

 

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Re: $900MM on electric car production in Michigan

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Message 10 of 14

@GailL1 wrote:

@Richva 

No, it is not dead - in fact many of the foreign makers in the SE are heading forward  creating and marketing not only a few economical ones but also those of luxury and a few going into larger vehicles - trucks / SUVs.

You have to give people what they want to drive - size, use, features - that's the utilitarian use of motor vehicles.    If the lucrative tax deduction is gone - they have to be sold on their own merit and use - functionality.

 

We just got a big foreign EV battery maker here - lots of money being invested - will be hiring about 2000 people in a suburb of Atlanta - Jackson County.

 

How many charging stations do you have in your state?  Are they conveniently located?

 

 


"Super" charging stations are located every few hundred miles on major roads for fast recharge (300 miles/hour) for travellers.  Several private companies have located charging stations in malls and shopping centers for recharge.  RV parks usually have heavy duty outlets also. 

 

Electric cars can recharge using almost any outlet.  The difference is how long it takes. Many owners have installed higher capacity outlets in their garages and plug in whenever home. 

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