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Re: 80% AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE SANCTUARY CITIES

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Message 1 of 108

@rker321 wrote:

Everything that you have posted is acceptable, the trick is going to be in the uniformity. 
Unfortunately, exceptions will have to be made due to the complexity of the issue.

I wish that laws could be black and white like you describe.


Uniformity is tantamount to equality and equality under the law is a tenet of this republic.  Like is or not, difficult or not... it has to be done OR we are not who we say we are.

 

I addressed exceptions in my post.

 

IF an exception is necessary it should be all the time, everytime and therfore must be incorporated into the law itself. If the exception cannot be defined, it should not happen.  In that vein, that is true of the law as well.  If a law cannot be crafted to fit the circumstances, you probably should not have it at all.  Any law should be crafted to deal with the issue it is written for and nothing else.  There should be no riders or irrelevancies whatsoever.  If any issue is important enough to require a law, it is important enough to be considered on its own merits and nothing else in the legislative set-up or procedures should affect that. 

 

-IF the legislators are incapable of anticipating the exception[s] get rid of them. 

 

-IF the legislators are unwilling to accept responsibility, get rid of them.

 

-IF the legislators are incapable or unwilling to cooperate with the other political party

 

Re:  "black and white" is possible.  You do need competent and ethical people to draft them, however.  That is the problem.

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Re: 80% AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE SANCTUARY CITIES

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Message 2 of 108

@Richva wrote:

@rker321 wrote:


 






Reagan passed an act in 1986 that has generally been considered unenforced.  Clinton tried to change the laws in each of his terms as did Dubya.  Obama just prioritized deportations for felons then took the money they gave him and deported as may illegals as it covered.   Many of the people coming over the border do not fit any of the criteria for legally entering the U.S. Neither would my ancestors. Not sure about yours. Yet, they are here. So, we have a law which is not working, won't be changed, and we are about to spend billions trying to enforce it. 


Passing inneficient laws that didn't solve the issue of illegal immigration is like doing something so that others think that you are actually doing anything at all.

There are rules and regulations that are in our immigration laws and that most of them never cared to even apply for. 
Yes they are difficult, but a lot easier than if you try to immigrate into Canada, Mexico, Europe Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and oh so many more countries.
You just don't show up in  a country and think that you have the right to do so. and that is what the post is  not considering.

Probably, many of those would not have been able to apply, because of many reasons, like having a criminal record in their own country, no sponsor that would request for them. no job or comapany that would offer them a job and many of other things that are in the immigration laws.

Even, if they are changed, I doubt that they would accept many of the indivudals that apply. So, let's get realistic and see this issue with objectivity. please.

Please, this is not the Industrial Era of the last century.  We don't manufacture hardly anything. most of our jobs are in the service industry. and there are many unskilled Americans that can actually fill many of those jobs.

Now, we do need a comprehensive Guest Worker Program and If I remember correctly Bush tried to deal with that issue. but people in his party would not allow it.

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Re: 80% AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE SANCTUARY CITIES

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Message 3 of 108

@Richva wrote:

@rker321 wrote:


 






Reagan passed an act in 1986 that has generally been considered unenforced.  Clinton tried to change the laws in each of his terms as did Dubya.  Obama just prioritized deportations for felons then took the money they gave him and deported as may illegals as it covered.   Many of the people coming over the border do not fit any of the criteria for legally entering the U.S. Neither would my ancestors. Not sure about yours. Yet, they are here. So, we have a law which is not working, won't be changed, and we are about to spend billions trying to enforce it. 


Passing inneficient laws that didn't solve the issue of illegal immigration is like doing something so that others think that you are actually doing anything at all.

There are rules and regulations that are in our immigration laws and that most of them never cared to even apply for. 
Yes they are difficult, but a lot easier than if you try to immigrate into Canada, Mexico, Europe Japan, Australia, New Zealand, and oh so many more countries.
You just don't show up in  a country and think that you have the right to do so. and that is what the post is  not considering.

Probably, many of those would not have been able to apply, because of many reasons, like having a criminal record in their own country, no sponsor that would request for them. no job or comapany that would offer them a job and many of other things that are in the immigration laws.

Even, if they are changed, I doubt that they would accept many of the indivudals that apply. So, let's get realistic and see this issue with objectivity. please.

Please, this is not the Industrial Era of the last century.  We don't manufacture hardly anything. most of our jobs are in the service industry. and there are many unskilled Americans that can actually fill many of those jobs.

Now, we do need a comprehensive Guest Worder Program and If I remember correctly Bush tried to deal with that issue. but people in his party would not allow it.

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Re: 80% AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE SANCTUARY CITIES

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Message 4 of 108

@Richva wrote:

 Many of the people coming over the border do not fit any of the criteria for legally entering the U.S. Neither would my ancestors. Not sure about yours. Yet, they are here.

--

But of course there were no laws concerning immigration when our ancestors [mine especially since this was a colony of Great Britain].  The first immigration law was passed in 1790 and only provided that free white persons who had resided in the country for two years could be naturalized.

 

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/sites/default/files/publications/CIR-1790Timeline.pdf

 

It might be noted that most of the immigrants were indentured servants who served for a period of years before being awarded land.

 

When Europeans arrived there was no concept of country, however each Native American tribe loosely controlled their own territory which was based mostly on strength of force. 

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Re: 80% AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE SANCTUARY CITIES

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Message 5 of 108

@GailL1 wrote:

@Centristsin2010 wrote:

@rker321 wrote:

Sorry, I have no intention in entering into an argumante with you on this matter. I know what I said and I stand by my words. sorry that you don't agree with them.

 

It wasn't directed to you.  Of course you agree with your words 100%.  There's no need to argumante (sic).  I assume you know what you said and stand by your words. But the comment, "Justice is not something that Judges can engage in" remains inaccurate.


@GailL1

 

IMO, you are taking rker321's words out of context.  After further review.....I would agree.  I took them at face value.  The paragraph you quote below is contradictory.

 

In her post, she said, "Courts render judgments that are in accordance with the law. Justice is not something that Judges can engage in.


Compansionate or not, you and I can be compassionate, The Courts, Judges, The President, Congress don't have that luxury.

 

They have to follow the letter of the law."

 

The letter of the law is how we, in a civilized democracy, define "justice".  We don't have 340 million different definitions or "takes" on how a goverment, in this case, US judges, should or are expected to define the word. Justice is NOT how someone WANTS to define the word to suit their preferences, be it for religious, cultural or other reasons.  So the sentence remains inaccurate.

 

It's OK.....didn't make a huge deal, because it isn't one.  Just pointing out what I'd consider inaccurate or "fake".

 

By the way, your post was a good one.  Made me think a step or two deeper.  Always a good event in my eyes.  Thank you.

 

Now on to more important issues....."what time does TV go off tonight?" - Steve Martin


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.
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Re: 80% AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE SANCTUARY CITIES

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Message 6 of 108

@rker321 wrote:


But is your argument that anything which is "illegal" is unacceptable?  Immigration laws have not been updated in over 20 years. The resources to process immigrants in a legal manner have been underfunded for the same amount of time and longer. Unaceptable is not the word that I would use when speaking about illegal immigration. Illegal immigration  is a status of an individual in a country.

The only argument I have seen against these immigrants is that their entry was not legal.  Ok but why won't Congress revisit the laws? Well, that may be what you have encoutered. but not everyone describes illegal immigration in the same manner. and yes, it is the responsibility of Congress to produce a law that will entail what the laws should be.

 

States have passed laws legalizing marijuana while the federal laws have not changed since Nixon put them there.  Whose law do you follow?  I thought you knew that. Haven't you recognized a political football game before? Tell me which Administration in the last 40 years has actually done one thing about any of this?

 

In my view, the immigration laws do not meet the situation in today's world.   Of course not. that is why, they need to be revised, ammended, a new one whatever but dealt with in Congress.






Reagan passed an act in 1986 that has generally been considered unenforced.  Clinton tried to change the laws in each of his terms as did Dubya.  Obama just prioritized deportations for felons then took the money they gave him and deported as may illegals as it covered.   Many of the people coming over the border do not fit any of the criteria for legally entering the U.S. Neither would my ancestors. Not sure about yours. Yet, they are here. So, we have a law which is not working, won't be changed, and we are about to spend billions trying to enforce it. 

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Re: 80% AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE SANCTUARY CITIES

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Message 7 of 108


But is your argument that anything which is "illegal" is unacceptable?  Immigration laws have not been updated in over 20 years. The resources to process immigrants in a legal manner have been underfunded for the same amount of time and longer. Unaceptable is not the word that I would use when speaking about illegal immigration. Illegal immigration  is a status of an individual in a country.

The only argument I have seen against these immigrants is that their entry was not legal.  Ok but why won't Congress revisit the laws? Well, that may be what you have encoutered. but not everyone describes illegal immigration in the same manner. and yes, it is the responsibility of Congress to produce a law that will entail what the laws should be.

 

States have passed laws legalizing marijuana while the federal laws have not changed since Nixon put them there.  Whose law do you follow?  I thought you knew that. Haven't you recognized a political football game before? Tell me which Administration in the last 40 years has actually done one thing about any of this?

 

In my view, the immigration laws do not meet the situation in today's world.   Of course not. that is why, they need to be revised, ammended, a new one whatever but dealt with in Congress.





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Message 8 of 108

Richva wrote:

 

 

The only argument I have seen against these immigrants is that their entry was not legal.  Ok but why won't Congress revisit the laws?



---

So are you saying Congress should just make illegal entry legal?  Let anyone that wants to just come into the country?  There could be a huge savings from not having to have border patrol agents or other immigration agents wouldn't it be?

 

Already these illegals are driving wages down in the construction industry.

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Re: 80% AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE SANCTUARY CITIES

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Message 9 of 108

@rker321 wrote:

I don't have to do a poll to say that Most Americans don't want to have illegal immigration in the US, and remember, Illegals come from many countries. not just Mexico. as a matter of fact because of the amount of companies that have fled the US. Many Mexicans can now work in their country and they don't come in the numbers that they use to.

Most of the undocumented that now cross the border are from El Salvador, Colombia, Nicaragua and other South American Countries. 
Of course, we need to also realize that many come from Asia. Pakistan, India. and others.

European also not as much come from Europe into the US. and many are here with expired H1B visas especially from India.

Somalia, and countries in the African continent have been also the latest undocumented immigrants.

Like I have stated. unfettered ilegal immigration is not good for any country. and most countries have strict rules as to how many can actually enter their countries as immigrants, start by researching. Mexico, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Italy. etc.
We have never done a thing about illegal immigration, and now, we are paying the consequences of that action.

And yes. Americans now look at illegals as immigrants that could take their jobs and other issues. Years ago, our generosity would say. They come here for a better life. Now, I don't think so. 
We don't have the resources to house all of them.
Start by understanding the issue. and please look at it not wiith rose colored glasses but with objectivity. 
And then, if you can do that. realize that this issue needs to be resolved.


But is your argument that anything which is "illegal" is unacceptable?  Immigration laws have not been updated in over 20 years. The resources to process immigrants in a legal manner have been underfunded for the same amount of time and longer. 

 

The only argument I have seen against these immigrants is that their entry was not legal.  Ok but why won't Congress revisit the laws?

 

States have passed laws legalizing marijuana while the federal laws have not changed since Nixon put them there.  Whose law do you follow? 

 

In my view, the immigration laws do not meet the situation in today's world. 

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Re: 80% AMERICANS OVERWHELMINGLY OPPOSE SANCTUARY CITIES

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Message 10 of 108

I don't have to do a poll to say that Most Americans don't want to have illegal immigration in the US, and remember, Illegals come from many countries. not just Mexico. as a matter of fact because of the amount of companies that have fled the US. Many Mexicans can now work in their country and they don't come in the numbers that they use to.

Most of the undocumented that now cross the border are from El Salvador, Colombia, Nicaragua and other South American Countries. 
Of course, we need to also realize that many come from Asia. Pakistan, India. and others.

European also not as much come from Europe into the US. and many are here with expired H1B visas especially from India.

Somalia, and countries in the African continent have been also the latest undocumented immigrants.

Like I have stated. unfettered ilegal immigration is not good for any country. and most countries have strict rules as to how many can actually enter their countries as immigrants, start by researching. Mexico, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Italy. etc.
We have never done a thing about illegal immigration, and now, we are paying the consequences of that action.

And yes. Americans now look at illegals as immigrants that could take their jobs and other issues. Years ago, our generosity would say. They come here for a better life. Now, I don't think so. 
We don't have the resources to house all of them.
Start by understanding the issue. and please look at it not wiith rose colored glasses but with objectivity. 
And then, if you can do that. realize that this issue needs to be resolved.

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