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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 31 of 110

@ChasKy53wrote:

I see you've taken up your leader's habit of parsing what others post.  Still can't be original thinking.

And why is it that what comes out is blaming everything but the individivual when something like this happens? 


I

I blame this young man for doing what he did and he is responsible for it. But there were many dire circumstances in his life. You blamed "coddling" and Democrats.


  The shooter was thrown out of his house, lost both parents, had constant police contact, was living in the home of strangers, was thrown out of school, and a poster thinks this is coddling?

 Democrats having something to do with this is probably an even more ludicrous statement.

It is not the Democrats who have refused for decades to instill sensible gun control, it is not the Democrats who are backed by the crooked and greedy NRA, and it is not a Democratic president who removed restrictions on the mentally ill with regard to the purchase of guns.

Stupidity runs amuck.

 

Gee, I miss having a real president! 

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 32 of 110

@rk9152wrote:

@ChasKy53wrote:

 

Since my specific (3) questions weren't answered I'll ask again:   

 Ah yes, the "question game".

That's perhaps the trouble, you see everything as a game. It wasn't a "game", just three questions.

 

Were there the same number of guns per person back in the 50's and 60's ?  (no is the correct answer)

How many guns do these killers need? 

You tell me. I would prefer that killers have none. You seem to prefer that they have at least one wepon capable of killing dozens in less than a minute.

 

Was it as easy to get weapons that had rapid fire capabilities like an AR-15?  (no, because they weren't in every gun shop and there weren't even as many gun shops), they weren't in big box stores, they weren't advertised and therefore weren't as popular.

One pull=one shot. That existed in the past.

One pull=one shot and then re-chamber would be even better.

 

Were pistols as prolific and readily available back then? (no, for many of the same reasons)

I have seen no statistics to prove your point. Possibly you could offer some.

Can't remember the 1960's? I certainly do and there were far less places to purchase firearms. There were far less firearms per person then too. Have you been debating this topic without having statistics yourself? Hmm ............... that would be your own fault, wouldn't it? You could correct that very easily yourself. Why don't you?


 


 


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 33 of 110

Gail - So do you think ALL people which are diagnosed with a mental illness should be automatically put on the no gun list?

I think all people prescribed psychotropic drugs should be on the no guns list.

I asked the question before.  How does ANY level of mental illness equate with the responsibility of gun ownership?

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 34 of 110

@oceanedge2wrote:

If liberals want to perform a valuable service, have your representatives mandate mental instability to the background check.

 

Obama did that.  Republicans did not stop dt from undoing that mandate exactly 1 year and 1 day before seventeen more Americans were sacrificed to the alter of NRA profits.  There is no other explaination as to why dt did that.  Nothing I know of.


So who with a diagnosis of mental illness or mental disability should be put on the list ?

 

I talked about this in another thread - the Obama era rule had lots of holes, the ACLU and 23 ADA organizations was against it.  In fact, the NCIC ( National Criminal Investigation Check System) only covers a small number of people who have mental illness diagnosis.

 

If a person sees a psychiatrist and is diagnosed with a mental illness and is put in therapy and may be prescribed medication to help with whatever signs and symptoms - they aren't put on the National Instant Criminal Background Check system. (NICS)

 

The diagnosis for these individual could be depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, OCD, borderline or multiple personality disorder, PTSD or any number of others.  They may or may not continue to take their meds or stay under the care of a mental health professional (as was the case of Nickolas Cruz)

 

They may get better and then worse, they may be care for by another - family or friend or nobody but unless they commit a felony or are adjudicated by a court or committee as the state law requires, determining them to be a danger to themselves or other, they are not put on the NICS. 

 

They may never be declared disabled by the SSA; may not even file.  Even if they are determined to be disabled (SSDI or SSI) by mental illness or mental disability, unless they have a representative payee assigned, they still didn't go on the no gun list.

 

Even the adjudication definition is confusing and has been tested in court on several occassions. 

If a person is VOLUNTARILY committee in an emergency situation that may not meet the law for reporting.

Congressional Research Service R43040 04/13/2013 - Submission of Mental Health Records to NICS and t...

Neither a diagnosis of a mental illness nor treatment for a mental illness is sufficient to qualify a person as “adjudicated as a mental defective.” Rather, an individual’s “adjudication as a mental defective” relies upon a determination or decision by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority. The definition of “committed to a mental institution” may apply only to inpatient settings.  At least one federal court has held that the Supreme Court’s recent recognition of an individual right to possess a firearm suggests that some emergency hospitalization or commitment procedures, that may not have as many procedural safeguards as formal commitment, should not be included within the meaning of “involuntary commitment” for purposes of the Gun Control Act of 1968.

 

In 2007, Congress passed the NICS Improvement Amendments Act (NIAA), which authorizes the Attorney General to make additional grants to states to improve electronic access to records as well as to incentivize states to turn over records of persons who would be prohibited from possessing or receiving firearms.

 

In 2012, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) reported that a variety of technological, coordination, and legal (i.e., privacy) challenges limit the states’ ability to report mental health records to NICS. The HIPAA privacy rule, which applies to most health care providers, regulates the use or disclosure of protected health information. On February 14, 2013, HHS announced that it will seek to amend the HIPAA privacy rule to remove any potential impediments to state reporting of mental health records to NICS. The privacy rule is most relevant as a potential obstacle where information used to generate mental health records on individuals prohibited from gun possession under the GCA is held by health care providers in states that do not expressly require disclosure of such records to NICS. Courts and health care providers that generate such prohibiting mental health records may also be subject to state health privacy laws that may be more restrictive than the HIPAA privacy rule.

 

HHS complied in a rewrite of these HIPPA rules for President Obama -

Here is the HHS rule (January 2016), under the Obama era rule, on when HIPPA can be breached for the reporting to the NICS -

HHS.gov - HIPAA Privacy Rule and the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS)

But Notice it says:

The rule does not apply to most treating providers . . . . .

 

It is important to note that the vast majority of Americans with mental health conditions are not violent and that those with mental illness are in fact more likely to be victims than perpetratorsAn individual who seeks help for mental health problems or receives mental health treatment is not automatically legally prohibited from having a firearm; nothing in this final rule changes that.

 

When President Obama signed the SSA reporting rule in December 2016, he discriminated against whole lot of people because this is a population of disabled individuals who are being separated out from the rest of society JUST because they cannot balance their checkbook or buy their own groceries..  And there was even a way that they could appeal their status in the rule, several did.

 

President Trump might have reverse this rule but it was already lacking in most all respects.  Nicholas Cruz would not have been on this list since he seemed to slip through the cracks by law enforcement, mental health professionals, at least one social worker and any number of other people who found his actions strange.

 

So do you think ALL people which are diagnosed with a mental illness should be automatically put on the no gun list?  Or should it be only those who have a propensity of harming themselves or others?

 

I live close by to a Community-based home for troubled teens.  They have all kinds of mental illness or mental disability diagnosises.  They have caregivers 24/7 - dishing out their meds and helping them with life.  They get up and go to school everyday.  If an act of violence occurs either to themselves or to another, they are immediately removed from the home-type environment to an institutional type or single type care facility.

 

Addicts and alcoholics are not put on the list either unless they meet the criteria of a felony or have been adjucated in accordance to state law.

 

 

 

 

* * * * * * It’s Always Something - Roseanne Rosannadanna
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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 35 of 110

@TxGrandpa2wrote:

@ChasKy53wrote:


This is what you said:    Democrats want to cuddle the 'little darlings' so as to not hurt their self-esteem.


I see you've taken up your leader's habit of parsing what others post.  Still can't be original thinking.

 

And why is it that what comes out is blaming everything but the individivual when something like this happens? 

 


I have no leader and you don't seem to like "original thinking". If you don't want your words "parsed" then I would suggest not posting them in a public forum.

 

I blame this young man for doing what he did and he is responsible for it. But there were many dire circumstances in his life that could have contributed to his way of thinking. You blamed "coddling" and Democrats.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 36 of 110

When Republicans began their campaign against teachers, they undermined the authority that kept peace in the classroom needed for learning to happen. Then in 1955 "Why Can't Johnny Read?" hit the bookshelves and began a revolution with revolting consequences. It became politisized because Progressives pushed the "Old" method of teaching phonics as instilling a greater sense of independence in the students while the Conservatives wanted to embrace the "new"  learn by looking at the whole word pitched in the Why Can't Johnny Read tome.

 

The Conservatives carried the day, and it was decades before we returned to phonics as the way to teach kids to read, and in the meantime, the War on Teachers became part of the Republican mantra if for no other reason that to de-fund the NEA whichj tended to support intelligent candidates so GOPers never got any contributions.

 

Lest we forget, it was REPUBLICANS who pushed for all the unfunded mandates that have taken money away from the teachers and given it to the contractors that modify the structures and the non-education specialists that support the special needs kids. GOPers leave these Unfunded at the National and State level so the burden falls on the cities which are bleeding tax dollars as white flight moves their tax base to the 'burbs, a situation that did not exist when the Federal Government provided Revenue Sharing based on number of students, not parents income. In cities, people had to learn to "get along" in large diverse groups, but that led them to think and vote in a Progressive fashon while the disconnected 'burbs trended more Republican, so the deterioriating tax base in the cities was a GOOD thing for GOPers, but very bad for city kids.

 

It was the sheltered darlings in the 'burbs that had parents pushing to eliminate corporal punishment and most other means of discipline as well, so the Republican rant about how it's Progressives who allowed undisciplined kids to take over the schools is a total farce and cannot be supported by any assembly of actual facts.

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 37 of 110

@ChasKy53wrote:


This is what you said:    Democrats want to cuddle the 'little darlings' so as to not hurt their self-esteem.


I see you've taken up your leader's habit of parsing what others post.  Still can't be original thinking.

 

And why is it that what comes out is blaming everything but the individivual when something like this happens? 

 

 

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 38 of 110

@oceanedge2wrote:

If liberals want to perform a valuable service, have your representatives mandate mental instability to the background check.

 

Obama did that.  Republicans did not stop dt from undoing that mandate exactly 1 year and 1 day before seventeen more Americans were sacrificed to the alter of NRA profits.  There is no other explaination as to why dt did that.  Nothing I know of.


Trump does not make laws. The legislature does that. Contact your congress people.

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 39 of 110

@oceanedge2wrote:

If liberals want to perform a valuable service, have your representatives mandate mental instability to the background check.

 

Obama did that.  Republicans did not stop dt from undoing that mandate exactly 1 year and 1 day before seventeen more Americans were sacrificed to the alter of NRA profits.  There is no other explaination as to why dt did that.  Nothing I know of.


Ignorance, stupidity, and greed answers why the buffoon does almost everything he does.

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 40 of 110

If liberals want to perform a valuable service, have your representatives mandate mental instability to the background check.

 

Obama did that.  Republicans did not stop dt from undoing that mandate exactly 1 year and 1 day before seventeen more Americans were sacrificed to the alter of NRA profits.  There is no other explaination as to why dt did that.  Nothing I know of.

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