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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 71 of 110

@ChasKy53wrote:

 

Since my specific (3) questions weren't answered I'll ask again:   

 Ah yes, the "question game".

Were there the same number of guns per person back in the 50's and 60's ?  (no is the correct answer)

How many guns do these killers need? 

 

Was it as easy to get weapons that had rapid fire capabilities like an AR-15?  (no, because they weren't in every gun shop and there weren't even as many gun shops), they weren't in big box stores, they weren't advertised and therefore weren't as popular.

One pull=one shot. That existed in the past.

 

Were pistols as prolific and readily available back then? (no, for many of the same reasons)

I have seen no statistics to prove your point. Possibly you could offer some.


 

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 72 of 110

@Olderscout66wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Centristsin2010wrote:

The Constitution makes no reference to AR-15's.



.....in either direction.

 

That is why we have a Judicial Branch to resolve evolving technology based on the original concept.

 

And how is the distribution of weapons (your topic) figure into anything meaningful?


For starters, it demolishes the notion that too many people have too many guns for any attempt at regulation to work. It also puts the actual size of the gun owning population in perspective - while a whole lot of folks, me included, own a few guns, most of the guns are in the hands of a very small segment of the population and it seems that tail is wagging the dog on the matter of sane regulation of guns.

Yes there are collectors who own more but the most of the people only one a limited number - how many do the killers take with them?

 

 


 

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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 73 of 110

My children's children are the ones that are the entitled  generation. I guess that my children didn't really learned that when they got the tv/s or phones or whatever they seem to want. It was because it was the fruit of 20-30 years of labor. 
In turn, when they got married and had children, they begin to think that they had to provide their children with whatever they weren't able to get as children. and that is how the entitled generation was created.

Their maturity level is amazing. It never really appears until they are in their early 30's and in the meantime they think that whatever they want has to happen right now.
Having smart phones has become a necessity. really?  I don't know about that one. but there should be an age limit in which those things should be given to children. There is no discipline by their parents as far as usage. 
Are they afraid of them?  I remember very well when I had a kid out of line and unwilling to do as I said. I would simply look at him or her and say. Kid!!!! I gave you live, and guess what, I can take it away.!!!!  and they believed me  LOL
But now many parents want to be friends, and I have news for them that is a complete fantasy. you will never be your children's friend until they grow up. and become adults.


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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 74 of 110

@Olderscout66 wrote:


 

 

Now we've gone way too far in allowing YOUNG children to rule the roost - deciding what they will eat and wear and where they will go with whoever and having a room parents are not allowed to enter to see what they might be assembling to "surprise" their classmates at Columbine High. Funny thing, a generation ago, high school kids didn't carry out such plans because their behavior was "moderated" by watchful parents from birth until they left home.

 

 


That's not coddling them?  Doing away with corporal punishment instead telling them they shouldn't ought to have done that?  I and others my age, and previous generations learned with a belt when we did wrong, and not only in private.  Now you're not supposed to discipline your child under penalty of law.  My boyhood peers turned out to be successful in life.

 

We were not given anything we wanted and made our toys, etc last.  My brother and I were working on our bicycles from a real young age.  We didn't have 'play dates' or having grown-up directing our baseball games.  We would use any vacant lot available without them interferring, and one kid would have a ball, another a bat and, if lucky, another a glove.

 

Today, it is more grown-ups making kids entitled, while at the same time directly controlling their activities in a structured way.  No wonder they go off their rocker in an effort to be themselves.  Guns?  We played cowboys and Indians as soon as we could run and play... we had cap pistols and bb guns.   A neighbor kid had a .22 rifle we would go out in the woods and shoot....at 8 years old!?!

 

It is the Democrats who is as responsible for the permissiveness as Republicans.  Democrats want to cuddle the 'little darlings' so as to not hurt their self-esteem.

 

 

 

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 75 of 110

@Olderscout66wrote:

@TxGrandpa2wrote:

@Epsterwrote:

 

My 2 cents: Our problem is that we have far too many emotional babies incapable of dealing like adults with life's ups and downs, twists and turns, let alone someone with opposing points of view. We do not have a gun problem in America. We have an emotional maturity problem in America.

 

 


Completely agree!!!  The country is missing the fortitude that our pioneer ancestors had.  This probably isn't a modern day thing since there were incidents even when I was young.  But the participants wasn't coddled with 'poor thing', but toughly.  We have more  cases of PTSD in the military just because the present day generation just can't take it.

 

I emphatize with the victims and their families, but the instigators are the product of a coddled generation.


Total RW claptrap! Today's young people are NOT "coddled", they're rudely screwed out of the future their parents and grandparents had by laws passed by Republicans and managers who no longer view workers as an asset to their business.

 

Now we've gone way too far in allowing YOUNG children to rule the roost - deciding what they will eat and wear and where they will go with whoever and having a room parents are not allowed to enter to see what they might be assembling to "surprise" their classmates at Columbine High. Funny thing, a generation ago, high school kids didn't carry out such plans because their behavior was "moderated" by watchful parents from birth until they left home.

 

that said, the larger problem is hopelessness. The recent shooter in Flordia was kicked out of school for fighting, his mother died some time ago and his father passed a few months ago and he was homeless at 19. Society should have been there for him with hope for his future, but profits and executive compensation are more important these days, so he decided to "even the score" on his own.


Opportunities are everywhere for those that want them. Just like the previous generations, hard work is needed. For the college bound, Engineering, Computer Science, Physics, Chemistry (the harder subjects) pay big dividends after graduation.

For those that want to make big money without the degree, welders, plumbers, carpenters, and electricians make six figure salaries (some higher than the college kids).

Of course there are those that want to study english, history, anthropology, psychology, botany and many other professions that WON'T pay well.

 

Those liberal things that take away time from the "old school" subjects like LBGT, climate change, diversity aren't helping either.

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 76 of 110

@TxGrandpa2wrote:

@Epsterwrote:

 

My 2 cents: Our problem is that we have far too many emotional babies incapable of dealing like adults with life's ups and downs, twists and turns, let alone someone with opposing points of view. We do not have a gun problem in America. We have an emotional maturity problem in America.

 

 


Completely agree!!!  The country is missing the fortitude that our pioneer ancestors had.  This probably isn't a modern day thing since there were incidents even when I was young.  But the participants wasn't coddled with 'poor thing', but toughly.  We have more  cases of PTSD in the military just because the present day generation just can't take it.

 

I emphatize with the victims and their families, but the instigators are the product of a coddled generation.


Total RW claptrap! Today's young people are NOT "coddled", they're rudely screwed out of the future their parents and grandparents had by laws passed by Republicans and managers who no longer view workers as an asset to their business.

 

Now we've gone way too far in allowing YOUNG children to rule the roost - deciding what they will eat and wear and where they will go with whoever and having a room parents are not allowed to enter to see what they might be assembling to "surprise" their classmates at Columbine High. Funny thing, a generation ago, high school kids didn't carry out such plans because their behavior was "moderated" by watchful parents from birth until they left home.

 

that said, the larger problem is hopelessness. The recent shooter in Flordia was kicked out of school for fighting, his mother died some time ago and his father passed a few months ago and he was homeless at 19. Society should have been there for him with hope for his future, but profits and executive compensation are more important these days, so he decided to "even the score" on his own.

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 77 of 110

@Olderscout66wrote:

@NOTHAPPENINGwrote:

@ChasKy53wrote:Were there the same number of guns per person back in the 50's and 60's ?  Was it easy to get weapons that had rapid fire capabilities like an AR-15?  Were even pistols as prolific and readily available back then?

Dream on NOT, machine guns and sawed off shot guns have been illegal since 1934. Here's what wikipedia has to say:

 

The National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) defines a number of categories of regulated firearms. These weapons are collectively known as NFA firearms and include the following:

Machine guns This includes any firearm which can fire more than 1 cartridge per trigger pull. Both continuous fully automatic fire and "burst fire" (e.g., firearms with a 3-round burst feature) are considered machine gun features. The weapon's receiver is by itself considered to be a regulated firearm. A non-machinegun that may be converted to fire more than one shot per trigger pull by ordinary mechanical skills is determined to be "readily convertible", and classed as a machine gun, such as a KG-9 pistol (pre-ban ones are "grandfathered"). Short-barreled rifles (SBRs) This category includes any firearm with a buttstock and either a rifled barrel less than 16" long or an overall length under 26". The overall length is measured with any folding or collapsing stocks in the extended position. The category also includes firearms which came from the factory with a buttstock that was later removed by a third party. Short barreled shotguns (SBSs) This category is defined similarly to SBRs, but with either a smoothbore barrel less than 18" long or a minimum overall length under 26". Silencers This includes any portable device designed to muffle or disguise the report of a portable firearm. This category does not include non-portable devices, such as sound traps used by gunsmiths in their shops which are large and usually bolted to the floor. Destructive Devices (DDs) There are two broad classes of destructive devices:

  • Devices such as grenades, bombs, explosive missiles, poison gas weapons, etc.
  • Any firearm with a bore over 0.50 inch except for shotguns or shotgun shells which have been found to be generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes. (Many firearms with bores over 0.50" inch, such as 10-gauge or 12-gauge shotguns, are exempted from the law because they have been determined to have a "legitimate sporting use".)

You could get some of these weapons AFTER an extensive background check, but none were "readily available" (perhaps back in the 'Holla' youcould get one from ol Jeb, but otherwise you be outta luck)

 

The year 1986 is significant because the NRAGOP passed laws saying you could buy manhine guns made BEFORE that date, BUT NOT AFTER. So your properly registered and background checked minigun made in 1985 is OK.


Background checks started in 1981 (we were both wrong on the dates) and prior to that no background checks were done. Machine guns required a Federal license starting in 1934.

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 78 of 110

@rker321wrote:

 

Will someone explain to me this unique American phenomenon  regarding guns?


I would believe that it is something that is ingrained in the pioneer heritage and the driving force behind our War for Independence.  Part of that comes from pioneers on the frontier having to provide not only food for their family, but also protection from attack.  There were no 911 or police they could call.

 

Many think that guns make them macho; in many areas deer hunting and deer season is practically a religious observance..another hang on from our pioneer days.  Some show off their guns like others would their stamp or coin collections.

 

I doubt that gun ownership has anything to do with politics because both Democrats and Republicans are among avid hunters and/or gun collectors.

 

 

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 79 of 110

@NOTHAPPENINGwrote:

@ChasKy53wrote:Were there the same number of guns per person back in the 50's and 60's ?  Was it easy to get weapons that had rapid fire capabilities like an AR-15?  Were even pistols as prolific and readily available back then?

Dream on NOT, machine guns and sawed off shot guns have been illegal since 1934. Here's what wikipedia has to say:

 

The National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) defines a number of categories of regulated firearms. These weapons are collectively known as NFA firearms and include the following:

Machine guns This includes any firearm which can fire more than 1 cartridge per trigger pull. Both continuous fully automatic fire and "burst fire" (e.g., firearms with a 3-round burst feature) are considered machine gun features. The weapon's receiver is by itself considered to be a regulated firearm. A non-machinegun that may be converted to fire more than one shot per trigger pull by ordinary mechanical skills is determined to be "readily convertible", and classed as a machine gun, such as a KG-9 pistol (pre-ban ones are "grandfathered"). Short-barreled rifles (SBRs) This category includes any firearm with a buttstock and either a rifled barrel less than 16" long or an overall length under 26". The overall length is measured with any folding or collapsing stocks in the extended position. The category also includes firearms which came from the factory with a buttstock that was later removed by a third party. Short barreled shotguns (SBSs) This category is defined similarly to SBRs, but with either a smoothbore barrel less than 18" long or a minimum overall length under 26". Silencers This includes any portable device designed to muffle or disguise the report of a portable firearm. This category does not include non-portable devices, such as sound traps used by gunsmiths in their shops which are large and usually bolted to the floor. Destructive Devices (DDs) There are two broad classes of destructive devices:

  • Devices such as grenades, bombs, explosive missiles, poison gas weapons, etc.
  • Any firearm with a bore over 0.50 inch except for shotguns or shotgun shells which have been found to be generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes. (Many firearms with bores over 0.50" inch, such as 10-gauge or 12-gauge shotguns, are exempted from the law because they have been determined to have a "legitimate sporting use".)

You could get some of these weapons AFTER an extensive background check, but none were "readily available" (perhaps back in the 'Holla' youcould get one from ol Jeb, but otherwise you be outta luck)

 

The year 1986 is significant because the NRAGOP passed laws saying you could buy manhine guns made BEFORE that date, BUT NOT AFTER. So your properly registered and background checked minigun made in 1985 is OK.

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Re: 3% of Americans own 50% of the 265 million guns

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Message 80 of 110

@ChasKy53wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

Epster made some good points that were, naturally, attacked on a personal level.

 

Think of this - back when we were kids there were plenty of guns around yet people generally did not go on mass shooting sprees. What changed? Not the guns - our population.

 

Yes, people today are less able to deal with disappointment and that is not a "Conservative thing". It is a national reality.


Were there the same number of guns per person back in the 50's and 60's ?  Was it easy to get weapons that had rapid fire capabilities like an AR-15?  Were even pistols as prolific and readily available back then?


Fact is, while the AR-15 was not on the market yet, you could get an M-2 carbine with a banana clip that provided about the same firepower and do it for (if memory serves) around $40, and Lee Harvey Oswald shelled out a whole $12.78 for his mail-order Italian .30cal rifle (plus $7.17 for the telescopic site) that changed history. By the way, REPUBLICANS killed a bill in 1962 that would have BANNED import of weapons like Oswald's.

 

It wasn't the availability of guns, it was the almost Universal (in America) sense that Today was FANTASTIC and tomorrow it would be much better. The gap between rich and poor shrank every year and both groups were getting richer,  guys in the shop owned vacation homes (fishing shacks, but still...), mothers only worked if they really wanted to and my friends at the "consolidated school" for farm kids brought their shotguns to school and left them in the Principals office so they could go hunting right after class. You could pay for college with a summer job, and virtually every corporation had excellent benefits for employees AND retirees.

 

Now the Republicans have legislated in support of sending our jobs to the Commies in Asia, driven DOWN the real value of the minimum from $1.15, in 1962 or $9.00/hr in today's dollars to $7.25, and transfered the cost of maintaining all our infrastructure from the very rich to the middle class. Corporations have told retirees "so long, and thanks for the uncompensated overtime" as they move to Brazil along with the Workers Pension Fund. Americans now work LONGER each week then their parents did in the 60's, wait longer for retirement and cannot rely on ANY of the "social safety nets" that were solid as Gibraltar and after all the extra hours, take home LESS in real wages than their parents did.

 

Add to that the RWNJs like Limbaugh. Breightbart and Infowars that were turned loose when  Reagan killed the Fairness Doctrine that had kept that sort of ranting hate off the air since 1949, and you have a whole generation that EXPECTS to do less well than there parents did, and believes it will only get worse. Now add in the NRAGOPs drive to put military weapons in the hands of as many civilians as possible, and Voila', you've got America Today, where school kids get slaughtered because the NRAGOP makes sure their murderers will always be better armed than the cops.

 

It's not the guns, its the REPUBLICANS. VOTE DEMOCRATIC as if your life depended on it - it does.

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