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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 61 of 105

@BigLib wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

The decision is made by the individuals involved as their relationship develops, not some bureaucrat.

Companies make their own policies regarding workplace conduct, so this "not some bureaucrat" bit is irrelevant.

O.K. Bureaucrat or clerk.

No one surrenders their right to not be manhandled at work simply because some coworker that has a problem respecting the rights of others, can't keep their hands to themselves.

I fully agree. And no one should have to surrender their rights to normal human interaction with coworkers because of the latest "victimology" issue.

 

 


 

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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 62 of 105

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

I'm sure glad I'm not out there today. All my working life I had the pleasure if interacting with delightful women as equals and as non-equals. I enjoyed it very much.

 

How it works today is a mystery - you really cannot write down a set of rules to cover every possibility that still allows for a pleasant and productive environment.


Simple rule - treat everyone politely and fairly. The same rule that was in effect my whole working career.

 

That is a good way of looking at it, but there are other situations. Example, when congratulating a man a pat on the back is common, In our modern days a woman who wants to  e treated equally might complain about "Invading my space".

 

And then there is the common, human action of consoling someone who has lost a loved one and there is often physicality involved. What a shame to lose such plain every-day humanity. If you really like a person you have worked with in the past and haven'r seen her for a while, "Oh, it is good to see you" with a hug just seems right - if she is not onboard with that, the message would have been delivered (and hopefully understood) before the "event".

 

Yes, there are lecherous  out there. But it is a shame for all people, men and women, to lose simple, human interaction acceptable to both over concerns created by the "looking for something to complain about" few.



Even many men do not appreciate someone invading their space. I go one do not appreciate a physical pat on the back or a hug at work for any reason.

 

And I am sure you convey that with your demeanor so it probably isn't an issue.

 

What is so difficult about just speaking politely and keeping your hands to yourself?

 

Absolutely nothing except for the loss of humanity. But, if you are wanting only "purely business" relationships with no friendliness involved, I, again,  assume your demeanor will assure that.


 


Since when has being polite equated to loss of humanity?

 

As you mentioned in another topic, lack of maturity harms reasonable discussion or doesn’t that apply when it is you showing the lack of maturity?


Being friendly does not indicate a lack of maturity. Except to those who are so up tight that they are incapable of interacting with other people without first checking some series of arbitrary rules.


Apparently you seem to think that sexual harassment is alright as long as you feel good about it. Why do you spend so much energy defending the abuser and blaming the victim? Were you one of the abusers?

 

If you don’t know whether someone will see your hug as welcome or harassment you don’t know that person well enough to hug them.


I  do not think sexual harassment is O.K. Where have I defended an abuser or blamed a victim?

 

You are right about having to know the person. That was my point, knowing each other and acting accordingly. I just believe that it is possible to have a friendly relationship with a co-worker, certainly not with every co-worker, but a "one size fits all" approach is not needed either. 


It is very possible to have a friendly relationship with a co-worker or anyone else without getting too handsy.

Agreed but some physical contact is normal in any friendly relationship. Men (and/or women) shake hands and pat shoulders - that isn't necessarily "too handsy". However any person should be able to make it clear that they don't buy into that and their wishes should be respected.

No one has suggested a one size fits all approach but you have come the closest to suggesting that.

How have I done that?

 

Your previous posts are very suggestive of people’s right to put their hands all over others and that those who don’t appreciate that need to just accept it.

Another poster going to the extremes - "hands all over"???? Where did I say such a person needs to just accept it????


 

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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 63 of 105

My own experience has been that the people who raise these fake issues are usually the ones no woman would chance being alone with anyway.  The right has moved from fake news to fake excuses.  Anything to put women "in their place".

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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 64 of 105

@rk9152 wrote:

The decision is made by the individuals involved as their relationship develops, not some bureaucrat.

Companies make their own policies regarding workplace conduct, so this "not some bureaucrat" bit is irrelevant. No one surrenders their right to not be manhandled at work simply because some coworker that has a problem respecting the rights of others, can't keep their hands to themselves.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (13 pages of lies and growing)
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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 65 of 105

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

I'm sure glad I'm not out there today. All my working life I had the pleasure if interacting with delightful women as equals and as non-equals. I enjoyed it very much.

 

How it works today is a mystery - you really cannot write down a set of rules to cover every possibility that still allows for a pleasant and productive environment.


Simple rule - treat everyone politely and fairly. The same rule that was in effect my whole working career.

 

That is a good way of looking at it, but there are other situations. Example, when congratulating a man a pat on the back is common, In our modern days a woman who wants to  e treated equally might complain about "Invading my space".

 

And then there is the common, human action of consoling someone who has lost a loved one and there is often physicality involved. What a shame to lose such plain every-day humanity. If you really like a person you have worked with in the past and haven'r seen her for a while, "Oh, it is good to see you" with a hug just seems right - if she is not onboard with that, the message would have been delivered (and hopefully understood) before the "event".

 

Yes, there are lecherous  out there. But it is a shame for all people, men and women, to lose simple, human interaction acceptable to both over concerns created by the "looking for something to complain about" few.



Even many men do not appreciate someone invading their space. I go one do not appreciate a physical pat on the back or a hug at work for any reason.

 

And I am sure you convey that with your demeanor so it probably isn't an issue.

 

What is so difficult about just speaking politely and keeping your hands to yourself?

 

Absolutely nothing except for the loss of humanity. But, if you are wanting only "purely business" relationships with no friendliness involved, I, again,  assume your demeanor will assure that.


 


Since when has being polite equated to loss of humanity?

 

As you mentioned in another topic, lack of maturity harms reasonable discussion or doesn’t that apply when it is you showing the lack of maturity?


Being friendly does not indicate a lack of maturity. Except to those who are so up tight that they are incapable of interacting with other people without first checking some series of arbitrary rules.


Apparently you seem to think that sexual harassment is alright as long as you feel good about it. Why do you spend so much energy defending the abuser and blaming the victim? Were you one of the abusers?

 

If you don’t know whether someone will see your hug as welcome or harassment you don’t know that person well enough to hug them.


I  do not think sexual harassment is O.K. Where have I defended an abuser or blamed a victim?

 

You are right about having to know the person. That was my point, knowing each other and acting accordingly. I just believe that it is possible to have a friendly relationship with a co-worker, certainly not with every co-worker, but a "one size fits all" approach is not needed either. 


It is very possible to have a friendly relationship with a co-worker or anyone else without getting too handsy. No one has suggested a one size fits all approach but you have come the closest to suggesting that.

 

Your previous posts are very suggestive of people’s right to put their hands all over others and that those who don’t appreciate that need to just accept it.

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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 66 of 105

The idea that someone should give up their rights or allow themselves to be bullied because it might make the more paranoid fearful is stupid. 

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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 67 of 105

@Richva wrote:

This thread is just amazing.  Typical attempt by the Right to get people to restrict their own rights by threatening worse situations if they do.  This is a lovely narrative (for the Right)  but just does not exist in the real world.


Where did you find that analysis of "the right" in what has been posted here?

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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 68 of 105

@BigLib wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:


Only when the established relationship has pointed to the acceptability of  a handshake including the other hand on the arm and, when called for, a pat on the back. This applies, BTW, gender neutral.

 


So who gets to make that determination? Just because you think "the established relationship" allows you to paw all over someone, doesn't mean it's welcomed or acceptable conduct.

 

You've described your conduct several times here, and it's remarkably odd that you can't offer a simple handshake without also assuming you're entitled to grab on to their arm, or beat them on the back.

 

 


"Paw all over" "beat them on the back"- you're always carried to excess.

 

The key to understanding the last para exists in "Only when the established relationship has pointed to the acceptability" The decision is made by the individuals involved as their relationship develops, not some bureaucrat.

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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 69 of 105

This thread is just amazing.  Typical attempt by the Right to get people to restrict their own rights by threatening worse situations if they do.  This is a lovely narrative (for the Right)  but just does not exist in the real world.

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Re: 18 Months Into Me Too, Male Bosses Are Afraid To Meet With Female Employees

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Message 70 of 105

@rk9152 wrote:


Only when the established relationship has pointed to the acceptability of  a handshake including the other hand on the arm and, when called for, a pat on the back. This applies, BTW, gender neutral.

 


So who gets to make that determination? Just because you think "the established relationship" allows you to paw all over someone, doesn't mean it's welcomed or acceptable conduct.

 

You've described your conduct several times here, and it's remarkably odd that you can't offer a simple handshake without also assuming you're entitled to grab on to their arm, or beat them on the back.

 

 

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/statements/byruling/false/ (13 pages of lies and growing)
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