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Re: 10 Planks

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Message 1 of 138

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

 



.

You only see what you want to see. There has been no poster advocating for most of the planks and they have nothing to do with the Progressive Movement.

 

O.K. - boil it down. What part do do you see as part of the Progressive Movement and what parts aren't

 

Already answered several times.

 

You never answered that simple question before. All you have done is made a lame attempt to equate progressives to marxists.

Have I overcome my "lameness" sufficiently?

 

Nope, you are still making the claim that Progressives are neoMarxists.

 

Since all you do here is play games why do you expect others to treat you seriously?

I do not consider the thinking of Karl Marx to be a game. It is a political ideology that has been around for a long time and has had serious consequences on mankind. Yes, I would suggest taking it seriously.

 

You are only using the writings of Karl Marx as part of your usual game. Since only a fringe without any real power or following in this country subscribe to most of his writings I don’t believe there is any danger of them taking over.

 

BTW - to see the connection between Marxism and the Progressive Movement I would suggest looking into the Fabian Society and the Frankfurt School. I have offered much on these topics in the past but finding it would be quite a task - there are easier ways - google for example.


 


 



@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

 



.

You only see what you want to see. There has been no poster advocating for most of the planks and they have nothing to do with the Progressive Movement.

 

O.K. - boil it down. What part do do you see as part of the Progressive Movement and what parts aren't

 

Already answered several times.

 

You never answered that simple question before. All you have done is made a lame attempt to equate progressives to marxists.

Have I overcome my "lameness" sufficiently?

 

Nope, you are still making the claim that Progressives are neoMarxists.

O.K. what in the Progressive Movement ideology do you see that is at odds with Marxism? My biggest objection is the control it wants to exercise over the people. History has shown that can had bad effects.

 

Since all you do here is play games why do you expect others to treat you seriously?

I do not consider the thinking of Karl Marx to be a game. It is a political ideology that has been around for a long time and has had serious consequences on mankind. Yes, I would suggest taking it seriously.

 

You are only using the writings of Karl Marx as part of your usual game. Since only a fringe without any real power or following in this country subscribe to most of his writings I don’t believe there is any danger of them taking over.

It is not a "game". It is a topic I consider worth discussing. Why are you so reticent to discuss it?

 

BTW - to see the connection between Marxism and the Progressive Movement I would suggest looking into the Fabian Society and the Frankfurt School. I have offered much on these topics in the past but finding it would be quite a task - there are easier ways - google for example.


 


 


 

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Re: 10 Planks

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Message 2 of 138

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

 



.

You only see what you want to see. There has been no poster advocating for most of the planks and they have nothing to do with the Progressive Movement.

 

O.K. - boil it down. What part do do you see as part of the Progressive Movement and what parts aren't

 

Already answered several times.

 

You never answered that simple question before. All you have done is made a lame attempt to equate progressives to marxists.

Have I overcome my "lameness" sufficiently?

 

Nope, you are still making the claim that Progressives are neoMarxists.

 

Since all you do here is play games why do you expect others to treat you seriously?

I do not consider the thinking of Karl Marx to be a game. It is a political ideology that has been around for a long time and has had serious consequences on mankind. Yes, I would suggest taking it seriously.

 

You are only using the writings of Karl Marx as part of your usual game. Since only a fringe without any real power or following in this country subscribe to most of his writings I don’t believe there is any danger of them taking over.

 

BTW - to see the connection between Marxism and the Progressive Movement I would suggest looking into the Fabian Society and the Frankfurt School. I have offered much on these topics in the past but finding it would be quite a task - there are easier ways - google for example.


 


 

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Re: 10 Planks

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Message 3 of 138

 


@rk9152 wrote:

@Olderscout66 wrote:

neoRepublicans, beginning with the John Birch Society, have ranted about the "10 Points of Socialism" because it's their only argument AGAINST a progressive income tax, public schools and government protections for those who are not rich.

 

Wanting to talk about it seems to be nothing more than an excuse to call pe3ople commies without violating the TOS.


Regardless of the Birchers, the issue what do YOU think about the 10 planks?(sic)

 

As to "commie", it is my understanding that we are not allowed to call "pe3ople" "commies". But for some as yet unexplained reason Nazi, fascist, alt-right, racist, sexist, homophobe - Trump lover and idolizer - ignoblers(?), and other such charming words are acceptable. 

 

So, the 10 planks have been listed. Forget the Birchers, do you agree with many?? Do you think that Marx described a good model for government.


Interesting idealism in theory - but never could be a workable model for a goverment of H.Sapiens...

Like trump, and an unfortunately rather large proportion of his followers and supporters, there are H/Sapiens that are dishonest, lie, cheat, and steal - and then lie some more - republican/conservative/teawhacko/fundamentalist/evangelical politicians - like Steve Stockhouse, for instance....

 

China doesn't use the unmodified planks, they have modified them in favor of adaptations that work for humans.

As has been observed, there are countries in Europe, and Canada to the North that are successfully using ideas that are NOT derived from any of the unrealistic idealism of Marx and Engels - but from workable concepts - all of which antedate Marx and Engels ideas by many centuries...

 

Of course, cognitive dissonance, the conservative thought disorder related to psychosis, will have dismissed any aspect of reality that does not support the "alternative reality conservative fairy tale" before the sun sets...

 

 

44>dolt45
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Re: 10 Planks

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Message 4 of 138

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Snoopy48wrote:


Got it - you don't really want to discuss anything about the topic you started you just want to pick at other posters. You have now changed what you expect others to discuss at least three times and have not provided any discussion on any of them.

 

I really thought I had - I'll try again and then hopefully we can discuss the merits/downsides of Marxism.

 

Once again, I believe Karl Marx was a decent man who thought the ideas he picked up in the hippy coffee shops of the time would create "paradise on earth" for the population. But, he and the other hippies of the day were naive and overlooked human nature. This was amply demonstrated by Lenin and even more so, Stalin.

 

Marx realized that people had to be "conditioned" to the Communist system. For that to happen, an all-powerful government was needed to do the conditioning. Then he believed once everyone was on-board the government would simply disappear. As we have seen, that is not the way things work.

 

His 10 planks were the pathway to that all powerful government and the conditioning it would do.

 

A perfect example of the folly of his thinking was the Russian revolution. When things finally settled down, Lenin was in charge. He seized all the property of the land owners and redistributed it among the farm workers. But shortly after, along came Stalin with a thought often expressed on these boards that the land actually belonged not to the farmers but to "we the people". And that was defined as the government acting for "we the people" - the result was catastrophic starvation for the people. But, with an all powerful government, there was nothing that "we the people" could do about it.


 


So are Marx’s ideas a good plan or not?


That is the issue. I have stated my views yet have yet to hear those of anyone else - only games.


You could quit playing your game and answer the question you have asked others - are Marx's ideas a good plan or not?


Did you really not see the answer in my lengthy answer to your previous question (above)?

 

I'll try again - on the surface they do appear good but his approach is impractical as history has demonstrated.


Good, now you apparently agree with the rest of us. 

I doubt it. I see the planks in the Progressive Movement and the thinking of several posters here. And, as I said, they would be bad for America.

 

Did you really find it so hard to answer your own question?

Not at all hard. In fact it was the same thing I was saying all along. As I recall you played the same game on the three topics devoted to the origins, history in American and current manifestation of Marxism. 


You only see what you want to see. There has been no poster advocating for most of the planks and they have nothing to do with the Progressive Movement.

 

O.K. - boil it down. What part do do you see as part of the Progressive Movement and what parts aren't?

 

You never answered that simple question before. All you have done is made a lame attempt to equate progressives to marxists.

Have I overcome my "lameness" sufficiently?

 

Since all you do here is play games why do you expect others to treat you seriously?

I do not consider the thinking of Karl Marx to be a game. It is a political ideology that has been around for a long time and has had serious consequences on mankind. Yes, I would suggest taking it seriously.

 

BTW - to see the connection between Marxism and the Progressive Movement I would suggest looking into the Fabian Society and the Frankfurt School. I have offered much on these topics in the past but finding it would be quite a task - there are easier ways - google for example.


 

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Re: 10 Planks

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Message 5 of 138

@Olderscout66 wrote:

neoRepublicans, beginning with the John Birch Society, have ranted about the "10 Points of Socialism" because it's their only argument AGAINST a progressive income tax, public schools and government protections for those who are not rich.

 

Wanting to talk about it seems to be nothing more than an excuse to call pe3ople commies without violating the TOS.


Regardless of the Birchers, the issue what do YOU think about the 10 planks?

 

As to "commie", it is my understanding that we are not allowed to call "pe3ople" "commies". But for some as yet unexplained reason Nazi, fascist, alt-right, racist, sexist, homophobe - Trump lover and idolizer - ignoblers(?), and other such charming words are acceptable. 

 

So, the 10 planks have been listed. Forget the Birchers, do you agree with many?? Do you think that Marx described a good model for government.

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Re: 10 Planks

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Message 6 of 138

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Snoopy48wrote:


Got it - you don't really want to discuss anything about the topic you started you just want to pick at other posters. You have now changed what you expect others to discuss at least three times and have not provided any discussion on any of them.

 

I really thought I had - I'll try again and then hopefully we can discuss the merits/downsides of Marxism.

 

Once again, I believe Karl Marx was a decent man who thought the ideas he picked up in the hippy coffee shops of the time would create "paradise on earth" for the population. But, he and the other hippies of the day were naive and overlooked human nature. This was amply demonstrated by Lenin and even more so, Stalin.

 

Marx realized that people had to be "conditioned" to the Communist system. For that to happen, an all-powerful government was needed to do the conditioning. Then he believed once everyone was on-board the government would simply disappear. As we have seen, that is not the way things work.

 

His 10 planks were the pathway to that all powerful government and the conditioning it would do.

 

A perfect example of the folly of his thinking was the Russian revolution. When things finally settled down, Lenin was in charge. He seized all the property of the land owners and redistributed it among the farm workers. But shortly after, along came Stalin with a thought often expressed on these boards that the land actually belonged not to the farmers but to "we the people". And that was defined as the government acting for "we the people" - the result was catastrophic starvation for the people. But, with an all powerful government, there was nothing that "we the people" could do about it.


 


So are Marx’s ideas a good plan or not?


That is the issue. I have stated my views yet have yet to hear those of anyone else - only games.


You could quit playing your game and answer the question you have asked others - are Marx's ideas a good plan or not?


Did you really not see the answer in my lengthy answer to your previous question (above)?

 

I'll try again - on the surface they do appear good but his approach is impractical as history has demonstrated.


Good, now you apparently agree with the rest of us. 

I doubt it. I see the planks in the Progressive Movement and the thinking of several posters here. And, as I said, they would be bad for America.

 

Did you really find it so hard to answer your own question?

Not at all hard. In fact it was the same thing I was saying all along. As I recall you played the same game on the three topics devoted to the origins, history in American and current manifestation of Marxism. 


You only see what you want to see. There has been no poster advocating for most of the planks and they have nothing to do with the Progressive Movement.

 

You never answered that simple question before. All you have done is made a lame attempt to equate progressives to marxists.

 

Since all you do here is play games why do you expect others to treat you seriously?

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Treasured Social Butterfly
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Re: 10 Planks

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Message 7 of 138

 


@Olderscout66 wrote:

neoRepublicans, beginning with the John Birch Society, have ranted about the "10 Points of Socialism" because it's their only argument AGAINST a progressive income tax, public schools and government protections for those who are not rich.

 

Wanting to talk about it seems to be nothing more than an excuse to call pe3ople commies without violating the TOS.


Crackpot whackos ranted in the 1920s about a "red scare" that never amounted to anything - in  the 1950s alcoholic/morphine addict McCarthy and whackjob Welch and his Birch nutcases ranted irrationally about a "red scare" that eventually led to Vietnam - a blindingly stupid bleep-up - and sure enough - a new bunch of whackos are imagining phony "commies under the bed" and ranting again - and are very obviously - just like their predecessors - every bit as nutty as a fruitcake factory as their predecessors were...

 

 

44>dolt45
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Message 8 of 138

neoRepublicans, beginning with the John Birch Society, have ranted about the "10 Points of Socialism" because it's their only argument AGAINST a progressive income tax, public schools and government protections for those who are not rich.

 

Wanting to talk about it seems to be nothing more than an excuse to call pe3ople commies without violating the TOS.

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Valued Social Butterfly
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Re: 10 Planks

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Message 9 of 138

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Snoopy48wrote:


Got it - you don't really want to discuss anything about the topic you started you just want to pick at other posters. You have now changed what you expect others to discuss at least three times and have not provided any discussion on any of them.

 

I really thought I had - I'll try again and then hopefully we can discuss the merits/downsides of Marxism.

 

Once again, I believe Karl Marx was a decent man who thought the ideas he picked up in the hippy coffee shops of the time would create "paradise on earth" for the population. But, he and the other hippies of the day were naive and overlooked human nature. This was amply demonstrated by Lenin and even more so, Stalin.

 

Marx realized that people had to be "conditioned" to the Communist system. For that to happen, an all-powerful government was needed to do the conditioning. Then he believed once everyone was on-board the government would simply disappear. As we have seen, that is not the way things work.

 

His 10 planks were the pathway to that all powerful government and the conditioning it would do.

 

A perfect example of the folly of his thinking was the Russian revolution. When things finally settled down, Lenin was in charge. He seized all the property of the land owners and redistributed it among the farm workers. But shortly after, along came Stalin with a thought often expressed on these boards that the land actually belonged not to the farmers but to "we the people". And that was defined as the government acting for "we the people" - the result was catastrophic starvation for the people. But, with an all powerful government, there was nothing that "we the people" could do about it.


 


So are Marx’s ideas a good plan or not?


That is the issue. I have stated my views yet have yet to hear those of anyone else - only games.


You could quit playing your game and answer the question you have asked others - are Marx's ideas a good plan or not?


Did you really not see the answer in my lengthy answer to your previous question (above)?

 

I'll try again - on the surface they do appear good but his approach is impractical as history has demonstrated.


Good, now you apparently agree with the rest of us. 

I doubt it. I see the planks in the Progressive Movement and the thinking of several posters here. And, as I said, they would be bad for America.

 

Did you really find it so hard to answer your own question?

Not at all hard. In fact it was the same thing I was saying all along. As I recall you played the same game on the three topics devoted to the origins, history in American and current manifestation of Marxism. 

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Re: 10 Planks

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Message 10 of 138

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152 wrote:

@Snoopy48 wrote:

@rk9152wrote:

@Snoopy48wrote:


Got it - you don't really want to discuss anything about the topic you started you just want to pick at other posters. You have now changed what you expect others to discuss at least three times and have not provided any discussion on any of them.

 

I really thought I had - I'll try again and then hopefully we can discuss the merits/downsides of Marxism.

 

Once again, I believe Karl Marx was a decent man who thought the ideas he picked up in the hippy coffee shops of the time would create "paradise on earth" for the population. But, he and the other hippies of the day were naive and overlooked human nature. This was amply demonstrated by Lenin and even more so, Stalin.

 

Marx realized that people had to be "conditioned" to the Communist system. For that to happen, an all-powerful government was needed to do the conditioning. Then he believed once everyone was on-board the government would simply disappear. As we have seen, that is not the way things work.

 

His 10 planks were the pathway to that all powerful government and the conditioning it would do.

 

A perfect example of the folly of his thinking was the Russian revolution. When things finally settled down, Lenin was in charge. He seized all the property of the land owners and redistributed it among the farm workers. But shortly after, along came Stalin with a thought often expressed on these boards that the land actually belonged not to the farmers but to "we the people". And that was defined as the government acting for "we the people" - the result was catastrophic starvation for the people. But, with an all powerful government, there was nothing that "we the people" could do about it.


 


So are Marx’s ideas a good plan or not?


That is the issue. I have stated my views yet have yet to hear those of anyone else - only games.


You could quit playing your game and answer the question you have asked others - are Marx's ideas a good plan or not?


Did you really not see the answer in my lengthy answer to your previous question (above)?

 

I'll try again - on the surface they do appear good but his approach is impractical as history has demonstrated.


Good, now you apparently agree with the rest of us. 

 

Did you really find it so hard to answer your own question?

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