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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 91 of 167

In Response to RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement? by Mimi1921

Your scenario is correct and well taken.

Let me also convey that my view on how America treats senior citizens is appalling. When I was growing up, I was admonished, ALWAYS RESPECT YOUR ELDERS. It was not an option. No disrespect or any ill treatment towards any ELDER.  Whatever one's religious views, this too (Respecting elders) is admonished in Christianity.

I understand the GIFT situation and that is usually with a limitation of $10,000 annually with no strings or reporting, taxing by any government. 

LTC is not affordable for more than half of the nation simply because more than half the nation does not have the buying power to afford LTC insurance.  LTC insurance is a lifetime of contributions in most cases and this too is disheartening. 

BTW-- I like your ideas because as a kid living in Florida at a young age, most of my neighbors were elderly. They lived in homes-- boarding houses that they shared with the owner who usually cooked or paid someone to cook at the meals.  There really weren't LTC facilities as we know them today except for the very wealthy. In some of these former homes rented the abuse was rampant too. Living conditions varied and the images I will never forget.

We've volunteered in the past to our local LTC facility and it is one the hardest things to do. I'm not on par with the system or belief that the US has good LTC facilities - they are only as good as you can afford but the caveat is you usually don't get what you pay for. 

Current time - one of my neighbors did exactly what you mentioned and his mother in law lives in the addition, comes and goes as she pleases and it did add value to the home.

Maybe part of the solution is for families to take more active roles. 

Personally, my Mother is too stubborn to be dependent and I guess I am too. When we built out our basement a few years ago, it has a full bath, kitchen and plenty of finished space etc.  The idea was my office could easily be converted into a bedroom suite if either my Mother or still living Father-in-law needed to live with us.

There are some folks that have no financial constraint as to be able to afford LTC insurance but the higher percentage of Americans cannot. 

Lastly, my Grandmother left the house my Great Grandfather built and moved to a Government "apartment" as they were called back then. She received $75 monthly social security check and she always had food, money, clothing, etc. The residents of the "apartments" were looking after one another and this was in West Virginia. My wife's Grandfather in Illinois-- same thing!  They both passed years ago with no LTC facility or any assisted living other than family, friends and neighbor residents looking out for them.

Thank you, I like your ideas.

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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 92 of 167

In Response to RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement? by kom2010

Are you saying that the people currently in nursing homes on Medicaid assistance have cheated the taxpayers by hiding assets?

NO!

This is a LONG STANDING PRACTICE and IT IS WRONG!

I'm not saying I have the answers but clearly this is immoral and it is wrong for the seniors that must do it. My point to ASTRAEA is this practice is the norm and the Medicaid/care outlines the length of look back time they will review for the individual's assets.

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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 93 of 167

In Response to RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement? by Mimi1921

Sometimes I think people need to be more realistic, both about their own children's ethics, and doing things in a more business-like manner. My relatives had no qualms about trusting me with their money, but apparently some children grow up more focused about themselves, than their parents .. and maybe that's even the parents' doing!

Maybe people should make it a loan or have their names put on a deed, if they give a large sum of money to children, to put an addition on the house for themselves to live there. That would ensure they have a legal claim to funds, if they had to go to a nursing home or other facility .. and the children didn't feel the obiligation to help pay for it.


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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 94 of 167

In Response to RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement? by SLEEPERCELL

What about the folks who move in with children for five or more years with no intent to defraud and continue to spend money as they see fit, perhaps thinking that this is now their "forever" home?  

They may contribute to the household, make monetary "gifts" to children and grandchildren and before you know it, their nest egg has dwindled down to a very small amount.  

They continue to live with children until old age and infirmity take over.  In spite of everyone's wish that Mother or Father not spend the last of their "golden years" in a nursing home or LTF, the amount of time and energy required to care for them is no longer feasible for the household and the parent must be moved into different quarters for care and to maintain everyone's (parents & children) quality of life.

Can you justify a scenario like this as an attempt to conceal assets since the children and grandchildren obtained some material gain?  I don't think so. They probably thought LTC insurance wasn't necessary because the parent was "always" going to live in the home.

Good intentions, but it backfired on them.  I've seen this happen in a number of cases. Perhaps Mother or Father even footed the bill for an "add-on" apartment or bedroom suite and all went well until age/infirmity problems became the dominant reality and had to be addressed.  That definitely was a monetary gain for the children as it increased the value of their home.

Just tossing this scenario into the mix...

Mimi

 
“The third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. The second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. The first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking."
War With Honour, 1940 ~ A.A. Milne
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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 95 of 167

>>The practice that I mentioned is the "norm" and that's not an endorsement from me either. The system is broken.  >>

Sleepercell, you have posted so often that I want to make sure what you are referring to in the above sentence.

Are you saying that the people currently in nursing homes on Medicaid assistance have cheated the taxpayers by hiding assets?

Because I doubt that's true. What happens is that people begin paying, but if they eventually run out of money, AND THEY ARE ALREADY BEING CARED FOR, no licensed facility is allowed to just kick them out on the street unless the facility is being closed down completely.

Patients can be transferred or asked to go elsewhere if they develop a need for more intensive care than the facility is licensed to provide.

It isn't as easy to 'game' the system as you seem to think it is. The 'look back' period has changed to five years, so any assets transferred recently can be legally recovered and used to pay for a patient's LTC.

As far as what is needed for retirement, this is an interesting article that just appeared in SmartMoney magazine:

Living Longer: The Good News and Bad 

SmartMoney, March 25, 2011
 
(Excerpted)
.....A 65-year-old healthy man has a 50% chance of living to age 85 and a 25% chance of living to 92, according to the Society of Actuaries.
 
For a healthy 65-year-old woman, there's a 50% chance she'll see 88 and a 25% chance to reach 94. If those two people are married, there's a one-in-two chance one of them will celebrate a 92nd birthday.
 
Longer life spans also mean longer retirements. A couple in its 60s needs its nest egg to stretch 30 years or more.
 
 ......This also means preparing clients – who may have had relatively low out-of-pocket medical costs while employed – for significant health care expenses, especially at the end of that long retirement.
 
And those costs can really kick in as we age, says Anthony Webb, a research economist at the Center for Retirement Research at Boston College. "Bad health catches up with all of us," he says. And despite recent changes in Medicare, retirees – especially women – have significant out-of-pocket medical costs, according to a December 2010 report by the non-profit Employee Benefit Research Institute.
 
Men retiring at 65 in 2010 will need an estimated $124,000 to $211,000 saved up to cover health insurance premiums and out-of-pocket medical costs – and there's still a 10% chance they'll run out of savings, the report said. Women, who typically live longer, need $143,000 to $242,000.
 
And those figures don't include the costs of a nursing home or assisted-living facility. About 70% of those over 65 will end up living in a long-term-care facility, according to the U.S. Department of Health And Human Services. In 2009, the average cost for a room in an assisted living facility was $3,131 a month; a semi-private room in a nursing home was roughly double that rate."
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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 96 of 167

In Response to RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement? by ASTRAEA

I admire your ethics and I think you are sheltered from the facts or realties of everyday life in America when it comes to LTC for most Americans. Not an admonishment just my opinion which may be right or wrong.

Bravo to both your Aunt and Grandmother!

The practice that I mentioned is the "norm" and that's not an endorsement from me either. The system is broken.  

I just reviewed a local LTC provider with Assisted Living:

Average employee wages: $15 hourly (Not medical staff)

Average residence cost: $85,000 yearly

 

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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 97 of 167

In Response to RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement? by KidBoy2

Sorry for the confusion!

I'm not saying you said any of that,... in context of what I wrote, I am stating the ideas of what others may say, think , etc...

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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 98 of 167

In Response to RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement? by SLEEPERCELL

I never said everyone can afford facilities, or that I thought they did. But government subsistance programs should be for people who legitimately don't have the money .. not people who deliberately hide it, to benefit from those programs.


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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 99 of 167

In Response to RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement? by SLEEPERCELL

 

So one can be flippant and say look at me at what I have done or bring to light what many can't do, discuss it and venture into making or seeking changes.

 

________________________________________________________

 

I have said that people THAT CAN AFFORD LTC should consider it. 

 

If you have assets that you want to leave to others you should consider it.

 

Or you could give away all your assets and then if you go to a nursing home Medicaid will pay your bill. 

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RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement?

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Message 100 of 167

In Response to RE: How much do you need for a comfortable retirement? by KidBoy2

Average American worker earns under 50K per year pre tax-- do some research and you can either conclude or dispute--- I suggest you start with the IRS published statistics for the MSA's or work top down from the tabulated brackets of income - tax ratios for the population in general.

I don't relish the idea personally of paying for LTC insurance premiums forever---- at any age. There are many options that don't include social welfare--- at least for me. For more than half of all Americans they don't have that option nor will they afford something so intangible as LTC insurance when they are struggling to make ends, raise a family, etc.

So one can be flippant and say look at me at what I have done or bring to light what many can't do, discuss it and venture into making or seeking changes.

The question remains unanswered-- how much do we REALLY need for retirement and this same question applies pre-Retirement only it would be stated, "HOW MUCH DO WE REALLY NEED?"

Consequentially there are those that "have mine" and why don't you have yours attitude. That isn't revolutionary it's just the norm but aside it shouldn't be such a SHOCK that many Americans cannot afford LTC and the game played is dissolution of assets to meet the waivers and gain the benefits of socialized care. To be ignorant of the game is akin to being blind that trusts of certain structures exist that protect most wealth and assets and still reap the social benefits.

That ain't graceful.

 

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