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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 191 of 208

As long as I can retain a substantial use of my mind and body and serve my community.

 

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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 192 of 208

Not to be all morbid or anything but given a choice...I'd be good with 60. I just feel that that might be realistically how long I have anyway. I'm 52 now...my Mom passed at 66 from a heart attack and she had lived longer than any woman on that side of the family. The only thing I do healthier than she did is daily exercise, I don't know if that's enough to cancel out the years I smoked and the tolls of stress. I don't want to outlive my husband, I'd rather go at the same time in fact.

 

Also I look at my Dad, 93 and still independent. But all the friends who have died, all the friends who are sick, that out of his five brothers and sisters he has two sisters left. He was lucky to find a partner late in life. She's younger and really turned his life around after he lost my Mom. But while he managed to plan for a stable retirement I know I'll be working until I croak. So yeah if you have financial resources and can travel and enjoy old age then more power to you.

 

 

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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 193 of 208

IN THE NEWS

 

Baltimore Sun 01/17/2015 Discussion over 'death with dignity' emerging in Maryland

 

 ~from the link ~

"The highly publicized death of Brittany Maynard, a 29-year-old with terminal brain cancer who ended her life under Oregon's death-with-dignity law last year, is renewing a national debate over assisted suicide — including whether to legalize it in Maryland.

 

Some lawmakers are proposing to enact a death-with-dignity law like those in place in Washington state and Oregon. And an ailing former Annapolis alderman, who has Parkinson's disease and says he is "ready to go," could provide a very personal side to the General Assembly debate."

 

~ more at the link ~

 

Good Luck, Maryland - some of us will be watching this debate closely.  What higher human right could there be than CHOICE to determine ones own fate when the future may hold nothing but losing your autonomy and perhaps living with pain.

 

 

 

 

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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 194 of 208

ASTRAEA wrote:

There has to be something missing or inaccurate in that story, because as long as someone can communicate in some way, they can reverse any directives they've put in place previously. So there's no reason he couldn't have asked for the feeding tube to be removed.

Although my Mom had a DNR in place, when she was at the end of her battle with cancer, she requested to be taken to the hospital, when she was unable to breath .. and that superceded what she had in her DNR.


I don't know all the legalees about the situation but it was something about that he had no other way to get water or the liquid stuff that was the food.  IOW, they could not starve him to death.

 

For a person under hospice, who is close to death, the sedation that they give them at the end should keep them from awakening with that smothering, panic feeling.    She may not have been to that point. When they get to that point, there is a stronger pack of meds that are started to keep them asleep; it would be terrible if they awoke.

 

My mother had a DNR in place, posted many places, and was on hospice.  While in the nursing home, wheeling about in a wheel chair, her heart stopped beating and she got blue.  They put her on the floor, did CPR, gave her oxygen and then back to the hospital the EMS took her.  I was very upset so were the ER staff.  She did not stay in the hospital and I got her out of that nursing home as fast as I could.

 

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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 195 of 208
GailL1 wrote: 

.. I knew a man (mid 70's) that had to have a feeding tube put in because of the deteriorization of his esophagus from radiation.  His doctor &  family encouraged him to have it, as I am sure many would do,  but he was already in a very weaken state from previous treatment.  After he had had it for about a month, he told them this was not gonna work and said to put him under hospice care because he wanted to let go, mind, body and soul.  He told them after he had the tube put in, he did not realize what life effects it would have on him.

 

So now hospice was put into a bad situation since he already had the feeding tube.  They could not withhold liquids and nurishment since the tube was already there.  He was miserable. ..


There has to be something missing or inaccurate in that story, because as long as someone can communicate in some way, they can reverse any directives they've put in place previously. So there's no reason he couldn't have asked for the feeding tube to be removed.

Although my Mom had a DNR in place, when she was at the end of her battle with cancer, she requested to be taken to the hospital, when she was unable to breath .. and that superceded what she had in her DNR.


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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 196 of 208

@ASTRAEA wrote:
@retiredtraveler wrote:

   Unfortunately, not much to discuss. If assisted suicide were legal, then we'd have something.


If you want to read more on the movement to allow for assisted suicide, check out Compassion & Choices: https://www.compassionandchoices.org/

One thing I didn't like in the article, was the section about Dr. Emanuel, saying he wouldn't seek treatment after 75. That sounds like a comment made by someone at least 30 years ago, because I know a lot of 75 year olds who are as vital & healthy, as someone 90 years old years ago! I totally understand the idea of refusing treatment, but it has to be based on an individual's situation, not any hard and fast rules based on age or cost. That's why people are so concerned about any medical/insurance program that decides whether they're "worth the cost" to treat! 


I think sometimes Dr. Emanuel says things for their shock value.  However, I believe what he was saying is that if the person has already made up their mind about NOT being treated or even change their lifestyle for whatever condition that might be found after any age, then why even look for it. 

 

Yes, the decision is up to each person and even if the decision is made in this regards, a time also has to be determined - his was 75 for when you just don't care to find anything for which the treatment would change the rest of your life so drastically that it wouldn't be what you wanted.

 

It seems to me that it also has a lot to do with the autonomy changes too.  Some treatments take a whole lot out of a person - enough to where they may never go back to what they once were, even considering age or even anyplace close to it.

 

I knew a man (mid 70's) that had to have a feeding tube put in because of the deteriorization of his esophagus from radiation.  His doctor &  family encouraged him to have it, as I am sure many would do,  but he was already in a very weaken state from previous treatment.  After he had had it for about a month, he told them this was not gonna work and said to put him under hospice care because he wanted to let go, mind, body and soul.  He told them after he had the tube put in, he did not realize what life effects it would have on him.

 

So now hospice was put into a bad situation since he already had the feeding tube.  They could not withhold liquids and nurishment since the tube was already there.  He was miserable.

 

He was so small and frail that he became bedridden and with that came the onset of pneumonia - he was on hospice so no efforts were made to reverse the course of it - no oxygen, no antibiotics - they did still feed him, they gave him pain and anxiety meds either via the tube or an injection and they cared for his custodial needs to be clean and moved until he died.

 

Yes, the decision has to be up to each and every one. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 197 of 208
@retiredtraveler wrote:

   Unfortunately, not much to discuss. If assisted suicide were legal, then we'd have something.


If you want to read more on the movement to allow for assisted suicide, check out Compassion & Choices: https://www.compassionandchoices.org/

One thing I didn't like in the article, was the section about Dr. Emanuel, saying he wouldn't seek treatment after 75. That sounds like a comment made by someone at least 30 years ago, because I know a lot of 75 year olds who are as vital & healthy, as someone 90 years old years ago! I totally understand the idea of refusing treatment, but it has to be based on an individual's situation, not any hard and fast rules based on age or cost. That's why people are so concerned about any medical/insurance program that decides whether they're "worth the cost" to treat! 


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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 198 of 208
I think there is so much more to the article, retiredtraveler, for the elderly as well as to those for whom may end up making decisions in the matter.

I already have a very stringent Healthcare Directive. Well, as stringent as the law in my state allows the choices. I want my family to really understand the autonomy issue ; I think they do but it is worth emphasizing often.

BTW, there are some states (5) that do allow a person to make the choice if terminally ill. It is called "Death With Dignity". In the news recently with the planned and carried out death of Brittany Maynard. Problem is, the way I understand it, you have to be lucid and coherent to make the decision at that time. Sometimes you might not be. Especially since incurable or gradual loss of autonomy has never been considered a terminal condition. Should it be?

Some links just FYI.
http://time.com/3551560/brittany-maynard-right-to-die-laws/

http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/civilrights/understanding/Section1553/




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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 199 of 208

"...After reading it, we can discuss it, if you like....".

 

   Unfortunately, not much to discuss. If assisted suicide were legal, then we'd have something.


"...Why is everyone a victim? Take personal responsibility for your life..."
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Re: How long do you want live? 80, 90, 100?

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Message 200 of 208
I am posting this link here to a very thought provoking article by health care reporter, Sarah Kliff.

After reading it, we can discuss it, if you like.
Personally, I am thinking about printing it out and giving it to my family members who hold my Health care directive powers. I want them to understand the subject of this article and we will have further discussions about it.

Here is the link
VOX 01/11/2015 How Americans' refusal to talk about death hurts the elderly by Sarah Kliff
http://www.vox.com/2015/1/11/7517211/end-of-life-care


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