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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 21 of 57

@RonMesnard I wanted to ask you if other members of your family have the fat gene. I know one of my siblings has it. She also has a slightly different ethnic profile than me, though we share parents. Clearly siblings inherit different genes, however I still find the fact that she has a thimble full of Middle Eastern genes where I have none and also she has fewer Basque genes than do I rather fascinating. Smiley Happy

 

Being hungry all the time sounds awful. I had adopted a bad habit of eating mindlessly, you know, snacking while reading, having a treat to reward myself for completing a project, that sort of thing. Mindless eating put pounds on me. To take it off I returned to my routine of keeping tabs on all inputs and outputs. As long as I'm paying attention, I'm good. So that kinda speaks to your comment about obsession. Lots of people see my health initiatives as an obsession, anyway. I see it as the only way I'm going to stay healthy. Perspectives. Smiley Happy

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 22 of 57

@RonMesnard  Thanks for the tip on the genome testing. I'll look into that today. Great that it revealed such vital information for you. 

 

At the moment I'm basically wasting food, my metabolism is so fast. My body is done with an 11 AM lunch by 1 PM the next day. This troubles me because of the flu season; I can't be getting the nutrients I need at this rate. So I'm looking into slowing it down some.

 

Genes.

 

On the muscle building gig: yep. DH is a lifelong athlete with a dastardly streak of diabetes running through his family. (6 of 8 immediate family members are/were stricken) We've been working hard for a year to get and keep his blood sugars in the Most Excellent! zone. He has 18% body fat, but carries a wee amount of fat on his neck and at his waist. As he too is a competitive cyclist, we see adding muscle mass to his frame as a way to grant him better endurance without him having to consume sugar (Clif blocks) during a race. And to better process the carbs he consumes during training season.

 

Interesting information about female thought patterns relative to software engineers. That must be the nurture portion of the program: the differences in how a given society shapes the thoughts of females. Interesting. Maybe one of these days American women will grow up holding onto less fear (fear of not being accepted, fear of aging, fear of being unworthy). One can hope. Smiley Happy 

 

Nah, I don't get depressed. I'm practically Howdy Doody. I do have to withdraw sometimes in order to process everything and to maintain equilibrium. Introvert behavior, that. Menopause introduced me to an array of emotions with which I previously had no association. Thankfully that's over and I'm back to being my bada$$ self. Uh, rational and unflappable self. Yeah, that's it. LOL.

 

Smiley Happy

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 23 of 57

@Epsterunfortunatly I have the fat version of the FATSO gene.  That is a real bite in the ass.  Some people 'never' get hungry because their hunger alarm is set to a very low BG.  Normal is normal but  some of us get hungry at a BG where others are feeling satiated.  I have enough muscle mass that I can lose weight like most men.  We get REAL hungry but only need to hang in there a few weeks and we have lost a few pounds.  The shame of it is, to keep it off with a bad FATSO gene you are always hungry. 

 

Muscles buffering your sugars is way over sold.  It is true and more true if you are building muscle. Watching what you eat is way more powerful.

 

The phsyc value of hormores interests me.  Are you easily depressed?  I ask this because estrogen may help grow the limbic system.  Women have a more advanced limbic system which helps them bond better and make them more empathic.  (Amen)  The more developed your limbic system is the easier you can get depressed.  Minor changes in hormone levels may influence how our brain developes.  A poorly developed limbic system might explain why you have a harder time relating to women or more likely the other way around. Men have poorly developed limbic systems.  That would interfere with the man's primary job, killing things.  Animals for food and enemies because they are bad. Unlike women we can't multitask well but are exceptional at single task such as killing. That ability kept some of us alive long enough for use to reproduce.

 

Women's brains are different than men's.  That said there is diversity in both sexes.  I know women who think more like a man and vise versa.  I am mostly thinking about the ability to program computers.  I was trained as a biologist but make my money programming.  It takes a special kind of person to be any good at it at all. Very few non asian women born in the US think like a programmer.  While programmers from India are about half women.  I don't know if it is genitic or cultural.  Being able to think like a computer doesn't make you a better person but I am sure none of this is by chance.

 

I strongly suggest you down load your 23&me genome and get a report from these guys for $5.  You will not get as much out of as a biologist but you will get more than your $5 worth. I learned if I take a very rare drug it can kill me.  That alone is worth $5.  I am sure they test you before they give it to you now  but I can say don't bother and save some money. My father was almost killed by one of those drugs when he took a tiny test dose.

 

https://promethease.com/

 

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 24 of 57

@RonMesnard  Right: muscle serves us in multiple ways, including acting as a 'buffer', if you will, for diabetes management. That's not my particular issue, though it is one of the reasons DH is doing resistance training and working with hand weights. 

 

For me, right now, it's all about weight to strength ratio. I'm thin. I'm strong. But I can still get better. Faster. Stronger. Smiley Happy In terms of my cycling races, I say I'm working on the engine, streamlining it, making it more efficient. I'm going to be looking into one of the trainers via the National Senior Games, to make sure I'm training in the best manner for my goals.

 

On the testosterone suspicion versus my long-missing estrogen: I was never a girly girl. My childhood was pretty much spent either up in a tree or running. Smiley Happy My best friends have always been male. I think we think alike, or at least process data alike. I get tripped up a lot trying to talk to women: they don't get me at all. (Well, very few ever have. I have two close women friends now that get me.)

 

Agreed on the 23andme tests: incredible access to data! As one who has mostly worked in PR, I'm not equipped to waltz into my account and make great sense of it all, certainly not on the level of a scientist, but still, so much data is offered there. For instance: I do not have the fat gene. So when I gain weight it is all lifestyle mistake, not genetics. (Rats, nobody to blame but myself. I hate it when that happens. Smiley Happy)

 

She who is obsessed with what is possible and who is headed to sweat out 2,000 plus calories on the local bike trail because ... racing happens. Smiley Happy 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 25 of 57

Well testostrone is the real anabolic steroid, the rest are poor imitations.

 

As far as muscle mass, not olny are you stronger with more but have more reserve.

 

We all have our genetic cheats.  I have some for my profession. I got my 20k genome from 23&me for $150 then I sent that to Promethese and for $5 more dollars you get an excellent detailed report.  They are the library for the human genome studies.  The reports link back to their wiki so you have as much access as anyone except for people working on that gene. That is the most echonomical way to get a detailed report.  Most good tests are much more expensive and the cheaper ones might give you a 6 k genome.  You want the health genome.  That is the most demanding and expensive.  The FDA worries about health reports and those are tightly monitored.  

 

I was trained as a biologist but I could make a lot more money as a programmer.

 

Progesterone also is a bit like testostrone but not nearly as powerful.  Even just lacking estrogen will make you a bit more competitive.  High levels tend to make you more complacent but my wife has an over supply and she is hot tempered.  We are all way too complex that any one issue is a driving force except for obcessions. That is the only way we can devote enough time to a cause to become great. Without the obsession, you will never make it into that top 1%.    

 

My daughter has it and she may make it into the 1% for her love.  She is probably at the 1% for her age (mid 20s) but to do anything she needs to get much better. I tried to get her to revamp her resume as how I would write it.  She is a music performace major. Employers will write off music majors as worthless.  Anyone graduating a performance major at a demanding conservatory is a perfectionist. What organization can't use a perfectionist graduating at the top of her class in one of the top 20 most compeititive colleges in the USA?   I had a talk with someone about another student.  He had more natural tallents than some of these 1%ers but his grades were too poor to get into a decent school.  I told him grades will closer predict how you come out as long as you have enough god given tallent.  To make it, you need to be driven to excellance no matter what you do. If you are told to do 2 hrs a day of terriblly boring excersise they do it or more. Like in any disiplin that requires practice, those are the ones to watch out for.

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 26 of 57

@RonMesnard  Hey, nice to meet a member of my tribe! Smiley Happy

 

Sorry it took so long to get back to you; mine was one of the accounts that was virtually locked down due to the recent log in issues. I couldn't post, give kudos or access my account's settings for well over a week. And this comment just got lost in the dust. Sorry.

 

Yeah, I confess to holding myself to high standards. I actually expect to be in the top whatever percent of whatever I do. It's maybe crazy, but this drive to excel has also taken me every place I wanted to go. So I agree, it's a good crazy. That said, it's nice to be recognized rather than vilified as so often happens. Smiley Happy I yam what I yam, right? Smiley Happy

 

On the cycling: I race a trike precisely because I have balance issues on an upright bike. (I tend to run a street bike off a cliff, or into a wall as if that was actually the plan... ugh.) So the trike helps  overcome my balance shortcomings. DH says I just tend to move too fast and that if you add two wheels to that you get trouble. He's a unicyclist, so he doesn't have balance issues. 

 

As far as the speed I've been able to attain so far on the trike (I now cruise bike trails at 24 mph with ease) I think it has a lot to do with brawn. I just push harder. Longer. 

 

A funny thing, since you mentioned testosterone. I had zero estrogen in my system in my 40s, according to a lab test. They failed to test testosterone, but I secretly suspect that I've always had more of that than what is considered normal for a female. I say work it! Smiley Happy 

 

See this woman? I want to be her at her age (I think she's now 65. I'm 58.) She is some kind of something!

Kay Glynn, 64.png

 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 27 of 57

Oh you are crazy but just not a bad crazy.  Those who make stuff up and think it is fact are BAD crazy.  I don't like them at all.

 

I get it; you are a compulsive perfectionist.  Well, it takes one to know one.  We are the only ones who have meaningful efforts. I am not not wrapped as tight as you but I rate myself as a AAA. I can make an impossible task look easy.  (I used to anyway)

 

We are a small undevalued group.  Most everything worth while has been achieved by one of us. In your case everyone you have competed agaist was the same but maybe just a liitle less crazy so you beat them. Who else has what it takes to do something totally outstanding?  Most normal perons only see the crazy not what we can do.   

 

I am older with less testostrone than a 60 year old man.  I need to work harder to keep it on which I don't.

 

How does cycling retaine balance?  I thought balance was all about nerve speed.  I have poor balance and poor hearing.  By the time the brain gets the signal and tries to correct it is too late you are already off balance.  Both are caused by the same thing.  I can't keep up with someone talking if they speek softly, have a high voice or have a strong accent.  I can't keep up with trying to decypher what they are saying.  I tell them to speak up. Nerve speed starts to degrade in our mid teens.  That is why gynmnasts age out earlier than any other athlete because they need such fast reflexes.  Depending on how crutal your reflex speed needs to be, detrumines when you age out of a sport. It isn't about strength or indurance.  It is how fast do your nerves work so you can hit that 110 MPH fast ball exactly where it needs to be hit.

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 28 of 57

@RonMesnard So you don't think I'm crazy, eh? Can I pay you to say that early and often around here, because I think plenty of folks here on the forums think exactly that about me. Smiley Happy

 

Statistically, I guess you are right that strenuous exercise truncates the life of the 50 plusser ... but considering that by that age most of us are on some sort of balance-interrupting prescription and that many have serious diabetes and that a huge portion of us are overweight to obese ... well, I think we can toss out those statistics for the likes of me. 

 

I'm a competitive cyclist with 11 gold medals to my name. Not normal. Not average. Still out there pushing the limits and having fun doing it. Smiley Happy I weigh less than I did on my wedding day; have no health issues, am strong as an ox and twice as aggressive Smiley Happy and am on zero prescriptions. These statistics, by the way, hold for senior athletes across the nation. They are strong. They are lean. They are on fewer prescriptions and they are mighty. Smiley Happy 

 

This summer I was honored to watch as a 90 year old cyclist took 15 minutes off the 20K course record for his age group at St George, Utah. He works out nearly as hard as I do, though he's 30+ years my senior. He's also in perfect health. And another cycling friend, this one 81, didn't like that I beat his times in '16, so spent all year working out harder ... he took minutes off each of his own times. He just emailed me that he's cycled every day so far in December, racking up 7,500 miles for the year. He's still trying to get faster! Smiley Happy

 

What is useful for us oldsters wanting to retain balance and mobility is muscle retention. You do have to work those muscles to keep them. But you may not have to work as hard as me or the two other cyclists I mentioned. 

 

Smiley Happy

 

Be well.

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 29 of 57

This has been an enjoyable conversation.  You appear smart, informed and not nuts.  The last being the most important.  There are so many crazy bloggers.

 

My Dr suggested walking.  

 

"Good health starts on the plate" no, it comes from minimiziing your health risks.  Yes, you are correct, I am a risk minimizer.  It has actually worked beyond my expectations in both health and finance.  Even though most of my Drs are tops for the DC area, I believe I am responsible for my own health and know more about my issues than they do.  I have enough science background to understand any biological or medical study or paper.  I have also gotten my DNA tested and that was a real eye opener.  I used 23&me to test and Promethease to run a health report.  That is run by the same group that published and maintains SNPedia. 23&me provides the cheapest quality test with over 20,0000 genes reported.  SNPedia is the repository for gene study.  For $5 you get a report and you can re visit yearly for free to get an update.  I just got mine today.  They had a few hundred more genes.  The most interesting find is I am in the highest catigory of 4 for metabolizing drugs/poisons. The half life of a drug is half that of the lowest performer.  The published half lifes are for the middle two that are about the same.  I can drink most persons under the table but may require extra antibiotics, etc. So it is mostly a bad thing that I can live with.   

 

I am a long time diabetic.  At 15 years of diabetes my Endo fanagled me to get exhaustive cardio testing.  The bill was almost 20k.  The results were, even though over 60% of the general public my age has moderate CVD, I didn't.  The fact that I was a long time diabetic that was remarkable I might be the healthiest diabetic he could remember seeing.  Of course he usually sees persons who have serious enough indicators for CVD that they need to see a cardio.  Still, I was at high risk (diabetes) with only a tiny amount of plaque. 

 

By knowing what all your risks are and then adressing them is a powerfulo way to stay healthy I am usually pushing for BP and diabetic meds.  I prefer to stay lower than even my endo likes but it is my body.  I am a rairity in all possible diabetic complications.  I do not go crazy with diet.  My wife thinks I am living dangerously with eating sweets etc.  I only eat what I can and not press my luck (risk prevention).  I take more diabetic meds than a 'health nut' diabetic.  That is much better for you than having a strict diet.  At sugar levels like I keep it is all about your insulin resistance which is the cause of CVD not high sugars.  Of course, above 300 glucose will destroy artery walls even if you have low IR.

 

Anyway statistically, strenuous workouts if you are over 50 will shorten you life.  You are 100% correct we are responcible for our health not our Drs.  It is all about the choices we make and how good was the information we base our decisions on.   

 

 

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 30 of 57

RonMesnard wrote:

A few points...

 

We are all suggested to keep BGs below 140 to maintain health.  That is a conservative number but excersising when your BG is already at 200 as your artical suggests is fool hearty.  Excessive BGs, above 300, are thought to damage your vascular system.  Why would people purposfully damage their vascular system?  I bet this is the reason they die before their time.  It is when idelogy overcomes common sense. 


@RonMesnard  Yeah, well, there's just no way to write a concise article to cover every health condition. So this is where common sense comes in, eh? If you are at the kind of risk described, one would think your doctor would tell you to start with slow, measured exercise rather than the kind of sweat-dripping, heart-pumping 780 calories burned workout I just got in 46 minutes on the mini-trampoline. I do not have a blood glucose issue nor do I have a heart problem. Common sense: talk with your doctor; find out what exercises are appropritate ... and probably most of all take charge of your health. You are  in the driver's seat: so drive. Smiley Happy

 

Good health starts on the plate, no? Smiley Happy I made a peach tart rather than a pumpkin pie for Christmas dessert because it has far less sugar. And we skipped those fatty, calorie and carb rich foods and treats. Also we were mindful of portion control, and the need to have a feast that was predominantly vegetables. 

 

To improve health we must learn to think carefully about our choices. Or so I think. Smiley Happy

 

And hey, Happy New Year! May you meet and exceed your health goals!

 

 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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