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Treasured Social Butterfly

Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 1 of 57

@RonMesnard  just touching bases, now that DH has had the CGM device hooked up for a few days:

 

So far 1/2 cup of oatmeal (of the savory variety, so made with diced tomatoes & onions, a wee bit of salsa and topped with half a small avocado) served with one piece of dry whole wheat toast is a no-no. That spiked his BG to 180. Next we'll try the oatmeal w/o the toast. Sheesh. Smiley Happy

 

But an apple, later, was free in terms of BG. Not even a ripple. (Yes, yes, I am planning to make sure we have apples onhand at all times.)

 

Yesterday, a green salad for dinner took his BG down to 80, whereas a before dinner snack of 25 corn chips plus 2 ounces of queso took it up to 167. It didn't return to 99 for over an hour, after which we ate dinner, and the monitor reported the drop to 80.

 

Too early to draw conclusions, of course, however this CGM system is already the best show in town and we are hooked. Smiley Happy 

 

Epster, hoping this is a good crazy Smiley Happy

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 2 of 57

@Epster, you are preaching to the choir.  3 of my grandparents died from diabetes the other died in a car crash before he got old enough to get diabetes.  I am the only one who became diabetic in my family and I needed to gain a great deal of weight to become T2D.  Back then my Dr blaimed a good bit on my condition on my weight gain so I was angry and lost 30 lbs.  That is the only reason I am not on insulin today.  They gave terrible diatary advice of which some still survives.  Sugar is not any more of the beast than any high carb food.  DH's relitives were likely diagnosed then if they are dying now.  It takes at least 20 years of being stupid, to die from this and it is a terrible way to go.  His relitives didn't know they were acting stupid back them but they know much more today.  When I lost my weight my BP meds were not dropped so I was high 120s - low 130s.  Not good but far from dangerous and lower than targets at that time.  That and my weitght loss is why I am healthier than the general population today.  Few become diabetics today unless their Drs are dinosaurs.  Now they catch you at pre-D and keep you there if you follow Drs advice.  Taking certain BP meds at night, staying trim and taking Metformin ASAP are the best way to slow or stop diabetes progression.  Unless you are eating too much food so you are gaining weight diet has little or no effect on diabetic progression. The same for excersise.  That is why going to a continous BP measuring is a bit bothersome.  Maybe the Dr is looking at your fasting numbers.  That could be meaningful. Far more meaningful than a glucose tollarance test. 

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 3 of 57

Hey Ron, @RonMesnard. Yeah, DH isn't, at this point, dying of diabetes. His mom and a sister did. One sibling is dying of diabetes complications and another is diabetic. The thing is that for 3 of these relatives, diabetes went undetected for years. And then they died. The family history is what has us on alert. We're, shall we say, proactive. Smiley Happy  I wanna be climbing mountains and winning bike races with this man for decades to come. Diabetes does not factor in. If we can help it. We're hoping we can. Smiley Happy

 

None of these people were obese, btw. Most all of them --DH excepted-- were or are overweight, and none of them --again, save DH-- were given to regular heart-pumping exercise, though none of them are couch potatoes. All eat from-scratch meals and are health conscious. But still, their DNA (and lifestyle?) opened the door to this disease. We hope to slam shut that door, install a deadbolt and nail it shut for good measure. Then we plan to pull a heavy bookcase in front of it to seal the deal. Smiley Happy

 

More when we get data.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 4 of 57

@Epster, I would be curious what a normal person 'looks like'.  I will expect very normal while he wakes.  Even if he becomes pre-D they still react near normally after eating.  What will be the most telling is what happens while he sleeps.  Fully normal persons have a fairly tight BG control when they sleep.  If it dips too low the liver dumps sugar and it is quicly shut off.  The worse your diabetes the longer the dump.  I was dumping like crazy last year until they finally upped my meds. 

 

Your hubby has a s-BP of 120.  He isn't 'dying of diabetes'. The first warning sign will be the raising of his s-BP. A rising of LDL or tri-s would be the next red flag.  If his s-BP rises BP meds will be more effective than diet at both keeping him healthy and slowing down the progression.  Both ACE and ARBs both reduce diabetic progression if taken before bed more than 70% one is a tiny bit better than the other but both reduce progression in the 70s%.  Diet has not been statistically proven to reduce diabetic progression unless you eat like a pig.  Diet has more to do with controlling weight.  I am sure he is in the group like me that will only get diabetes if they are over weight.  

 

You will get real, true, actual, usable data. 

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 5 of 57

@RonMesnard  OK. So. Here's where we are: DH's PCP appt was yesterday. He was given a prescription for the continuous glucose monitoring system because of the family history with death-by-diabetes, even though he's now on the 'healthy' side of the pre-diabetic border. The premise is that DNA gave him a less-than-optimal and otherwise punky pancreas. The idea is to see what influences his BG. 

 

So off we go, into the wild blue yonder. Smiley Happy  I'll let you know what, if anything, we learn from the initial 10-day monitoring. 

 

Fingers crossed for real, true, actual, usable data,

Epster 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 6 of 57
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 7 of 57

@Epster, I completely forgot about work outs.  They can produce dratimatic effects on a diabetic.  It will be in line with fasting problems.  Both high BGs come from your liver.  IR 'breaks' the off switch for liver dumps.  The off switch is inside an endocrine cell (a-cell).  The switch shuts off when your insulin rises.  IR prevents that rise from getting into the cell so the sensor can cut off what it is supposted to cut off.  It is like insulating a heat sensor for your thermostat.  It is as simple and mechanical as that.

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 8 of 57

@RonMesnard  Thanks. Smiley Happy

 

Yep: we think it vital to know how his body responds to fasting, meals (including actual menu and timing) as well as to our training rides.

 

His PCP is an out of the box thinker, so hopefully he'll prescribe the continual monitoring system even though DH is not (yet?) a diabetic. Fingers crossed.

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 9 of 57

I buy my test strips on eBay.  The best buys are going to expire in a few months.  They run 25-30% of full price. It is good to know how your body reacts to food and fasting.  Establishing a base line gives you a better prospective if something does go arie later.

 

If your hubby does see an increase in BP even to 125/? I would ask to take an ACE inhibitor or and ARB.  They do about the same thing and is about the only way to slow diabetic progression.  That only works if you take it before bed.  Even if his BP drops while he is sleeping this is concidered healthy.  By the time he wakes up 30-50% of the med is out of his system.  The biggest down side to taking too much BP med is you can black out.  In the morning your BP is naturally high by the time your natrual stimulants start to wear off you will have less than 50% in your system. BTW... doing that drops his risk of some kind of CV event to about 0. Most heart attacks occure right before you wake up and the pill short circuts the process that produces the event.  Your blood pressure spikes just before you wake up.  If you think about it it is really a no brainer.  I am healthier than I ought to be for such a long time diabetic.  It is likely that is because I always push for max BP meds.   I didn't optimise my medication but this is all pretty new.  We don't really understand what is going on yet with sleeping BP. 

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 10 of 57

@RonMesnard Ho! So I guessed right on the dopamine. Yay me. Smiley Happy (I was just going by his family history ... and doing so at the direction of my own history as an herbalist, which is to say looking at medical issues from a holistic manner.)

 

Good to know about the test strips. I'll pass that on. I don't even know (I'm about to find out, though) if the test strips for the regular BG monitor (which he used last year and which he found to be terribly inaccurate ... like you, he tested at home b4 blood draws) are the same thing as those used with the continuous monitoring device. Wait, duh me: I just pictured the process in my head. Nope. The continuous monitoring device uses a patch and a reader: no test strips. (Edit: my bad. I was not clear before about these BG monitors. DH has a home monitoring system, which he used last year and which found to be inaccurate (so we'll look into Abbott test strips should he ever go back to using that monitor). The BG monitor he ordered through Walmart, and which they refused to sell him w/o a prescription is the newfangled continuous monitoring system. The idea is to get real time feedback about what his activity level and his food behavior does to his BG.)

 

DH's LDL is perfect. His HDL was low last year: we brought it up to spec. His triglycerides were 92 and we brought them down to 65. His BG spent time in the >just< pre-diabetes level and we have fished that out of the red zone. For now. He's beginning a series with his PCP to try to pinpoint opportunities to move and keep all of this well into the 'perfect health' zone. BTW he also has a serotonin issue: his body doesn't produce enough of it. Or tends not to. Or, well, really, we have to keep nudging his body to produce serotonin. It'll do it if we keep after it via diet choices, a sunlight lamp, exercise and good sleep. But we do have to keep after it.

 

His 12 hr FBG has always been below 120, however his 8 hr FBG has been below 95. We are currently doing the rest-the-organs-5-hours-between-foods approach to see how that protocol affects things. So far, following this approach, we've seen is A1C move down a few points, but we want more time to see if that was a fluke and/or if it drops farther.

 

All this has brought me to my current suspicion that his DNA is faulty and that possibly lifestyle can only do so much for so long. I want to be incorrect here, because he's mid-50s. Waaaaay too young to put on drugs in my book. Today's drugs are tomorrow's organ damage/failure. (in my view/fear)

 

 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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