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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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@Epster, I completely forgot about work outs.  They can produce dratimatic effects on a diabetic.  It will be in line with fasting problems.  Both high BGs come from your liver.  IR 'breaks' the off switch for liver dumps.  The off switch is inside an endocrine cell (a-cell).  The switch shuts off when your insulin rises.  IR prevents that rise from getting into the cell so the sensor can cut off what it is supposted to cut off.  It is like insulating a heat sensor for your thermostat.  It is as simple and mechanical as that.

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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@RonMesnard  Thanks. Smiley Happy

 

Yep: we think it vital to know how his body responds to fasting, meals (including actual menu and timing) as well as to our training rides.

 

His PCP is an out of the box thinker, so hopefully he'll prescribe the continual monitoring system even though DH is not (yet?) a diabetic. Fingers crossed.

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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I buy my test strips on eBay.  The best buys are going to expire in a few months.  They run 25-30% of full price. It is good to know how your body reacts to food and fasting.  Establishing a base line gives you a better prospective if something does go arie later.

 

If your hubby does see an increase in BP even to 125/? I would ask to take an ACE inhibitor or and ARB.  They do about the same thing and is about the only way to slow diabetic progression.  That only works if you take it before bed.  Even if his BP drops while he is sleeping this is concidered healthy.  By the time he wakes up 30-50% of the med is out of his system.  The biggest down side to taking too much BP med is you can black out.  In the morning your BP is naturally high by the time your natrual stimulants start to wear off you will have less than 50% in your system. BTW... doing that drops his risk of some kind of CV event to about 0. Most heart attacks occure right before you wake up and the pill short circuts the process that produces the event.  Your blood pressure spikes just before you wake up.  If you think about it it is really a no brainer.  I am healthier than I ought to be for such a long time diabetic.  It is likely that is because I always push for max BP meds.   I didn't optimise my medication but this is all pretty new.  We don't really understand what is going on yet with sleeping BP. 

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 5 of 52

@RonMesnard Ho! So I guessed right on the dopamine. Yay me. Smiley Happy (I was just going by his family history ... and doing so at the direction of my own history as an herbalist, which is to say looking at medical issues from a holistic manner.)

 

Good to know about the test strips. I'll pass that on. I don't even know (I'm about to find out, though) if the test strips for the regular BG monitor (which he used last year and which he found to be terribly inaccurate ... like you, he tested at home b4 blood draws) are the same thing as those used with the continuous monitoring device. Wait, duh me: I just pictured the process in my head. Nope. The continuous monitoring device uses a patch and a reader: no test strips. (Edit: my bad. I was not clear before about these BG monitors. DH has a home monitoring system, which he used last year and which found to be inaccurate (so we'll look into Abbott test strips should he ever go back to using that monitor). The BG monitor he ordered through Walmart, and which they refused to sell him w/o a prescription is the newfangled continuous monitoring system. The idea is to get real time feedback about what his activity level and his food behavior does to his BG.)

 

DH's LDL is perfect. His HDL was low last year: we brought it up to spec. His triglycerides were 92 and we brought them down to 65. His BG spent time in the >just< pre-diabetes level and we have fished that out of the red zone. For now. He's beginning a series with his PCP to try to pinpoint opportunities to move and keep all of this well into the 'perfect health' zone. BTW he also has a serotonin issue: his body doesn't produce enough of it. Or tends not to. Or, well, really, we have to keep nudging his body to produce serotonin. It'll do it if we keep after it via diet choices, a sunlight lamp, exercise and good sleep. But we do have to keep after it.

 

His 12 hr FBG has always been below 120, however his 8 hr FBG has been below 95. We are currently doing the rest-the-organs-5-hours-between-foods approach to see how that protocol affects things. So far, following this approach, we've seen is A1C move down a few points, but we want more time to see if that was a fluke and/or if it drops farther.

 

All this has brought me to my current suspicion that his DNA is faulty and that possibly lifestyle can only do so much for so long. I want to be incorrect here, because he's mid-50s. Waaaaay too young to put on drugs in my book. Today's drugs are tomorrow's organ damage/failure. (in my view/fear)

 

 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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@Epster, I forgot to add the IR dopamine connection is not a hunch it is real and most likely why some diabetics are depressed. Your hunch turned out to be true.

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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@Epster, all you need to say when you are buying test strips that you intend to buy them without insurance.  You can get them paid for if you are a diabetic and show the perscription. On line is always cheeper.

 

Bayer has the best value and Abbot are the most accurate. Since I only test once a day I use Abbot and pay triple for the strip.  I always test my blood right before a blood draw so I can check the meter with the lab.  The most off the Abbot has been is 1 point in several years. The rest can be off 20%.  In families where you need to get fat before you get sugar problems means post meal issues are not a big deal.  If you become diabetic and are as skinny as a rail you will have lots of post meal issues because you have more bad genes than I do.  

 

Your husband is good for BP.  Now 120 is the start of medication.  Most Drs will not perscribe until you hit 130-140.  140 is malpractise in my book but I am extreme.  Actually BP and LDL/tris are far more telling about diabetic problems. than sugars.  The meter is more valuable than an A1c.  The most important value is the morning fasting BG or FBG.  That is completely due to your level of IR.  IR is what causes complications.  Being a nut I always error on being too careful and never to be caveleer about anyone's health.  As long as you are not crazy with meals and your FBG is below 120 your beta cells are protected. That is borderline toxic BG.  Your b-cells can recover while you sleep as long as your BGs stay below 120. Since you don't eat when you sleep, a low morning FBG mean your b-cells had time to fully recover.   

 

I am a 20 year diabetic and have the same food responce as I did 20 years ago.  I usually maintain 120 or lower.  If I don't I am fighting with my Dr.  Eventually I get my way.  She is way more fearful of over perscribing than I am.  I never get lows because of what is wrong with me but she is consumed with keeping me minimumally controled for my own good.  She forgets these fine points that I don't.

 

If you test you might as well be smart.  The after meal BGs are more meaningful if you have a sugar problem.  Then you need to avoid too much of a bad food.  This is fairly specific to the person so self testing is the only smart way to learn what you need to avoid.

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 8 of 52

@RonMesnard  Couple of off the top on my head responses in blue. 

RonMesnard wrote:

No I hadn’t heard anything about the relationship between insulin resistance and dopamine. I  researched diabetes causing depression but never came across this. This makes very much sense.

 

This is just a hunch of mine, that there is a relationship between dopamine and insulin resistance, based on watching DH's everythings closely for the past few years.

 

 

 

Pain meds are not supposed to fix anything other than cut pain. You picked a terrible for instance.

 

Well, yeah, but pain meds and antibiotics are the only type of prescription I have ever been given. 90% of all my ills have been sports related injury. Casts, crutches, ace bandages, those are the repair approaches with which I am most familiar. Drugs are a foreign world to me.

 

 

 

If you don’t have high blood pressure or any dangerous symptoms of something serious I wouldn’t take drugs either.

 

Nope. No high blood pressure and no other medical issues. I was anemic for much of my life, but I've managed to fix that.

 

 

 

Apple Watch can now pick out diabetics from their heart defects. Having a heart disorder is normal for a diabetic and is the most likely cause of death.

 

Very interesting.

 

 

 

 

Losing weight is about as powerful as medicine.

 

Amen and amen.

 

My hips were bad so I got very angry with my gluttony and lost 30 pounds. That kept me from getting a hip replacement and taking insulin. 

 

Hurrah!

 

If you husband takes BP meds he needs to review “taking BP meds before bed slashes diabetic risk. The meds are way more powerful than life style (he isn’t fat). This is new and the medical community is still coming to terms with this. The BP meds protect you l-cells some. That and not sugar is the root cause of diabetes.

 

His BP is typically 120/80. His resting pulse is typically 60. He's not on any medications. He's perfectly healthy outside the fact that his organs are (my view: grossly) inefficient.

 


DH ordered a glucose monitor through the Walmart pharmacy. When we went to pick it up they insisted that he needed a prescription for it. (The website said differently.) Anyway, so now he needs to see if his PCP will prescribe one. The game plan had been to monitor closely for a month, then go into the PCP armed with a year's worth of food diary and A1C tests and the data from the glucose monitoring system. Clearly, modern medicine thinks we have the cart before the horse. We heartly disagree, but what are ya gonna do? Smiley Happy

 

blah blah blah Smiley Happy must be time for a movie. Smiley Happy

 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 9 of 52

No I hadn’t heard anything about the relationship between insulin resistance and dopamine. I I researched diabetes causing depression but never came across this. This makes very much sense. IR insulin resistance changes things globally. Insulin is required to make many hormones. Your body makes little of the hormones that need insulin.   The lack of hormones is the primary cause if the hardening of the arteries and likely other problems

.

That said, I'm really of the fix this with lifestyle camp. I'm anti drug. They do more masking than curing and while they are at it they create new problems. I didn't even take pain meds after my hysterectomy. I wanted my body to tell me when I should rest.

Pain meds are not supposed to fix anything other than cut pain. You picked a terrible for instance. I take a lot of drugs and they are keeping me alive. I have 2 dangerous chronic diseases. I shouldn’t still be above ground. Instead, I am considered very healthy.

 

Of course, I'm not diabetic, so I can take a no drug stance, can't I?

If you don’t have high blood pressure or any dangerous symptoms of something serious I wouldn’t take drugs either.

 

Few diabetics are the same. There may be as many as 1,000 genes that will add to your diabetes. We have identified hundreds of the worst ones. Although certain rules are universal such and your morning fast should be below 120 and you shouldn’t go above 140 after meals very often. What you eat can control the after-meal spike but not the morning. You need drugs. What cause a high before you eat damages arteries.  Apple Watch can now pick out diabetics from their heart defects. Having a heart disorder is normal for a diabetic and is the most likely cause of death. T2Ds live 10 years less than John Doe.

We foolishly focus too hard on sugars. If your sugar is controlled, it is more of a symptom than the cause of d-complications.

 

https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/07/the-apple-watch-can-detect-diabetes-with-an-85-accuracy-cardiogram...

 

Extra belly fat is a killer for a diabetic. People like your husband will not get diabetes unless they gain weight. Just because you don’t get diabetes is no guarantee that you will not die from a heart attack. Most people who die from a heart attack are not diabetics. That is a diabetic complication. Medication plays a strong role while diet and exercise only help a little. Life style helps with a diminished return as you increase you efforts.

 

I'm glad you are studying things from a different angle. We need that, so go go go! Clearly, what we (the corporate we) are doing hasn't been working.

Medicine has been super helpful. When I was diagnosed most persons when to insulin by 10 years. Now that is rare. I probably wll never use insulin because I keep my FBG OK. My doc will not give me the meds to control like I would like. I continue to talk with her. I take more meds (including BP meds) than she would like. She relies too much on an A1c and not enough on FBG. A1c is a mixture of factors not just a measure of your IR as they treat it. If you completely cut the carbs you can have an A1c of 5. Are they protecting themselves from complications? Probably not!

I lucked out because I lost weight. Now we know that is the most powerful life style change we can do. Losing weight is about as powerful as medicine. My hips were bad so I got very angry with my gluttony and lost 30 pounds. That kept me from getting a hip replacement and taking insulin. Now getting diabetes is getting rare because Drs are catching them early. Pre-D is way easier to manage than diabetes.

 

If you husband takes BP meds he needs to review “taking BP meds before bed slashes diabetic risk. The meds are way more powerful than life style (he isn’t fat). This is new and the medical community is still coming to terms with this. The BP meds protect you l-cells some. That and not sugar is the root cause of diabetes.

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Re: ‘Fat but Fit’? The Controversy Continues

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Message 10 of 52

@RonMesnard  Crazy busy with multiple proposals over here. Sorry for both the delay in response and the lack of depth that I am now giving. ;(

 

Yes, agreed, there are snake charmers out there selling miracle diabetes cures. That said, I'm really of the fix this with lifestyle camp. I'm anti drug. They do more masking than curing and while they are at it they create new problems. I didn't even take pain meds after my hysterectomy. I wanted my body to tell me when I should rest. (Good news: it did. Smiley Happy)

 

Of course, I'm not diabetic, so I can take a no drug stance, can't I? Smiley Happy

 

Dear Hubby's DNA is apparently a diabetes playground. He's an atypical case, though. He's never been fat (or even overweight), has always been fit, active, athletic, careful with what he eats. The only two people in his immediate family that either did not die from diabetes, who do not now struggle with complications from diabetes, or who are not working hard to reduce A1C as a control mechanism are his sister who died young and his 90-something year-old father. Not that the rest of the sibs have lead perfectly fit, lean, food conscious lives, mind you.  Hmmmm, huh?

 

So for him, at least, there's more to the story than carbs. We are looking into getting a continuous glucose monitoring system so that he can get immediate feedback as to what is helping and what is not.

 

Anyway, there's lots in your posts to chew on and while I don't necessarily agree with some of it at this moment, I can tell you that that isn't going to stop me from considering it and looking into things afresh. Starting with insulin resistance and dopamine. The relationship, you know.

 

I'm glad you are studying things from a different angle. We need that, so go go go! Smiley Happy Clearly, what we (the corporate we) are doing hasn't been working. Clearly one size is not fitting all here. So hurrah to you for digging around and searching for previously overlooked clues. 

 

Smiley Happy

 

I'm done for tonight, but not done yet. Smiley Happy

 

 

 

 

"The key to success is to keep growing in all areas of life - mental, emotional, spiritual, as well as physical." Julius Erving
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