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Honored Social Butterfly

WHAT THE HECK GOES THROUGH THE MIND OF AN ANTI-VAXXER

We licked polio.

We licked smallpox.

We licked measles.

We licked tetanus.

We licked whooping cough.

We licked mumps.

We licked diphtheria.

 

Death, illness, disability.......... all these things avoided by use of vaccines.

 

And yet, there are the ANTI-VAXXERS.

 

I even have some in my family that don't vaccinate their children.

 

If we can prevent a disease, why would anyone in their right mind not take the steps to do so.

 

That is why I can't understand why there is hesitancy to take the COVID vaccines.

 

Death, illness, disability.......all these things are caused by COVID.

 

Why are people inviting those three scourges into their lives.

 

I just don't understand.

 

Could someone clarify it for me?

Regular Contributor

Some on the right have been radicalized. A few on the right are not radical. I don’t know the numbers. The radicals have a lot of characteristics in common with science deniers the world over. They are mean to others and believe only they know the way. I can’t really tell you why but they seem comfortable being cruel to anyone outside their “tribe”. Most of us mind our manners and are respectful of other people. But, we really have to stop. The radicals are killing people with their disinformation. We have to call these people liers because that is what they are. Wether they have enough brains to know it or not. I take no pleasure in hurting their feelings, even though they will take pleasure in hurting or being mean to others.

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Bronze Conversationalist

I didn't want the vaccine at first, but my husband kept 'after me' about it, so I had the first 2, am waiting on the booster. So much  information -or disinformation, on the subject of the safety of the shots ! Ever read 'Natural News' on the 'net ?!! This guy is out in left field. When I was a kid, polio was a deadly disease. I had the oral vaccine like so many others. It probably saved us. I'm now seeing people without masks-everywhere I go. I wonder if we should put so much faith in the vaccine that we can assume we'll never get sick, therefore, why mask ? We just don't know that much about this virus or it's variants. I have a couple family members who didn't get the shots. I only hope they can stay safe !

Sandee2
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Honored Social Butterfly

Just as an update, anyone noticing that most of the hospitalizations and deaths are involving the unvaccinated. And was the recent delta variant taken too lightly…and we still have people promoting not getting vaccinated, masks, and taking precautions…and to ask, who in particular is promoting the ideas which are putting others in harms way? 
Why do we let others endanger us. 

Honored Social Butterfly

Nothing has changed in the last two months…anti vaxxers and anti maskers are still leading others astray…which has helped to fill up our hospitals and morgues…not the direction that we want. 

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Honored Social Butterfly

Don't know about promoting - seems more like people are just making a bad choice, IMO.

Everybody has that choice because the vaccine is free and by now it is pretty much available everywhere.  And if not, a quick contact to a local health agency will get it right out to those that need it and want it.  At least that is what it is like where I live,

 

Reasons for not getting the vaccine are IMO, pretty stupid , but I don't see any way they can be forced - we have tried incentives, even cash, we have tried scientific reason, we have tried begging, we have tried punishments of various kinds - now, it seems we are focusing on FEAR - and it does seem to be working somewhat in many places cause vacs rates are up in some places.

 

I looked up the stats in some places and was alarmed to find that even in many big cities the rate of vaccination is dismal - but when one looks further, it seems that preventive care of even the normal variety is also dismal.

 

I will continue to follow CDC mitigating protocol for protection even if I don't know what the infection rate in the general area might be. 

 

I worry most about my grandkids who are less than 12 - starting school soon - school has a very good plan just like last year  - mask + plexi shields around their desk, staggaring schedule for lunch / class changes and outside.  Plus they are divided into pod buildings so not so many in one area.  Plus all teachers and staff must be vaccinated unless there is a medical reason for not.  There is no bus transport for their school so that is not an added concern.

 

I just hope that approval comes soon for their age appropriate vaccination - maybe by end of year or sooner, I hope.  

 

 

It's Always Something . . . . Roseanna Roseannadanna
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Honored Social Butterfly


@GailL1 wrote:

 

 

I will continue to follow CDC mitigating protocol for protection even if I don't know what the infection rate in the general area might be. 

 

 


As will I, but I think the CDC should have just made it a blanket recommendation for all to wear masks again, not delineate certain areas.  I know that I live in a designated Substantial Transmission county (hence recommended re-masking), but many are blissfully ignorant... or choose to be.  Signs being reinstalled at places of business are starting to just now surface again and this announcement was made a week ago and yet, I have noticed many people are still perplexed and uninformed.

 

Now that the federal government and some state governments (Virginia just announced restrictions) are requiring employees to be vaccinated or tested weekly if not more, we will see how that tactic works. 

Honored Social Butterfly


@MsStretch wrote:


 

 

 


. . . . I think the CDC should have just made it a blanket recommendation for all to wear masks again, not delineate certain areas. . . . .  I have noticed many people are still perplexed and uninformed.

 

Now that the federal government and some state governments (Virginia just announced restrictions) are requiring employees to be vaccinated or tested weekly if not more, we will see how that tactic works. 


I totally agree - who stops to look up what infection ranking an area has???!!!

Just another misspoke on the guidance for the powers, IMO.

They need to apply the KISS principal when giving out the guidance - you know what that is, right?  

 

I just don't know about what it is gonna take to convince people to get the vaccine - probably different stuff for different people.  I heard an old man the other day say that he is getting his vaccine because of the $50 being given.  I just told him - I am glad he got it (J&J - 1 dose) but he can't cash in again right now.  LOL

 

I do know some that I doubt will ever get it.  Most of these folks aren't too sociable - spend a lot of time hunting, fishing camping - but they do have to go to the grocery store and some other places occasionally -  places that I have to go too - so mask have definitely become part of my overall attire.

 

It's Always Something . . . . Roseanna Roseannadanna
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Honored Social Butterfly

@nctarheel 

Why the move? This isn’t controversial nor political, nor a condition or treatment…is there a “life threatening” topic…that is what the anti vaxxers are doing, threatening others lives…just look at the stats of infections being on the rise, number of hospitalizations, and potential mandates returning…where is the consideration of others?

Honored Social Butterfly

The CDC announced today that the vaccinated and unvaccinated in areas with high transmission rates should resume wearing masks indoors.  My county in Virginia was announced as one of the areas to see an alarming increase in new cases.  DC, MD, and northern VA still looking good.

 

So good thing I never packed up the masks, even though I have been fully vaccinated for almost 5 months now and proud of it.  Ironically, when VA lifted its state of emergency, wearing a mask that obscures your identity became illegal again.  Guess I'll take my chances.  😁

Honored Social Butterfly

@nctarheel 

As you pointed out, we have stopped the other Medical conditions, and we can stop the Covid virus, if we were not being impeded with the anti vaccination campaign, and who is that?

Wish that I could clarify totally, but my answers might be termed political…and politics have been banned here…no matter how important they are in our current lives. 

But we need to ask, who wants to see our Nation weakened…foreign and domestic. 
Who follows the propaganda of those who want our Nation weakened?
What media sites carry the propaganda, and are willing participants to support the anti vaxxers?
What leaders are not speaking out to stop the spread?
Why do people believe that not getting vaccinated is a right…and apparently also think that it is their right to infect others?
Why do people try to protect and divert attention away from those, who support not getting vaccinated?

Thanks for listening. 

Super Contributor

So unfortunate. We all suffer the consequences for the unvaccinated. Especially medical personnel at hospitals in Covid wards. I feel like those who choose to remain unvaccinated should remain home when they become ill with Covid! 

Honored Social Butterfly

WHO ARE THE VACCINATED and THE UNVACCINATED by Democraphic profiles -

Just some data.

 

KFF 06/11/2021 - Covid - 19 Vaccine Monitor: Profile Of The Unvaccinated / Vaccinated 

 

Who are the UNvaccinated #1.PNG

 UNvaccinated #2.PNG

 

 

 

 

It's Always Something . . . . Roseanna Roseannadanna
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Bronze Conversationalist

Everyone knows the numbers and who is not getting vaccinated. My question is- Why aren't you looking into the vaccinated status of those in power who are telling you not to because it's your choice? Give me a break. My wife and I may have to end up wearing masks again to prevent breakthrough infections because of the selfishness and lies coming from only one side. I have zero sympathy for those who "could" get vaccinated, don't, and end up with Covid. After all, it was their choice, right?

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Honored Social Butterfly


@postman29 wrote:

Everyone knows the numbers and who is not getting vaccinated. My question is- Why aren't you looking into the vaccinated status of those in power who are telling you not to because it's your choice? Give me a break. My wife and I may have to end up wearing masks again to prevent breakthrough infections because of the selfishness and lies coming from only one side. I have zero sympathy for those who "could" get vaccinated, don't, and end up with Covid. After all, it was their choice, right?


Yes, you are right - it is a personal decision and there are only limited ways that people can be forced (or strongly encouraged) to get vaccinated here in this country - still it is their choice and some maybe willing to accept the consequences of that choice.

 

Personally, I never stopped wearing a mask when I was around people which I didn't know if they were vaccinated or not.    We still have one big group that hasn't been cleared for the vaccine yet - kids age 0-12 - so I have even worn my mask around my grandkids since they are within this group.  Last I read, clearance for this group is not expected until at least 2022 because the testing is more detailed since they are of the age when other vaccinations are necessary so the covid vaccine tested has to be correlated with these other vaccinations.

 

Breakthrough cases have always been expected - because NO vaccine is 100%.  However, the covid vaccinations are effective in a high regard (%) in protecting people against severe disease and death. 

 

The CDC is monitoring any breakthrough cases that lead to hospitalization or death.

As of May 1, 2021, CDC transitioned from monitoring all reported vaccine breakthrough cases to focus on identifying and investigating only hospitalized or fatal cases due to any cause. This shift will help maximize the quality of the data collected on cases of greatest clinical and public health importance.

CDC 07/12/2021 - COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Case Investigation and Reporting

 

CDC 06/25/2021 - What You Should Know About the Possibility of COVID-19 Illness After Vaccination 

 

Choices are choices whether taking the vaccination or wearing a mask.

 

It's Always Something . . . . Roseanna Roseannadanna
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Bronze Conversationalist

I think this is a very good question.

I don't understand it, either.

I've noticed on FB that many people click the laugh emoji on the WebMD posts just about anytime WebMD talks about the pandemic and how people are dying and how people who do survive are having lasting effects. Some have had lung transplants. I have the impression that those laughers either don't believe we have a pandemic and everything about it is made up; or at least they think that it couldn't possibly happen to them. I lean toward the former. I think they believe it's all a big hoax.

In the end, the joke might be on them, but if it is, I know I wouldn't want to be them.

Stay well, everybody!

-Lynn

 

"Oh, them silly Unicorns." -Irish Rovers

Honored Social Butterfly

There isn't any clarifying - it is just their choice.  Some don't trust government, some are just waiting (?) , some don't like things introduced into their body, some are just too young to make good decisions, some say they have already had covid and have antibodies (?) - whatever their individual decisions, it ends up in the same place - UNvaccinated.  

 

Some testing continues and things are getting shut down when results are positive - or they are like Japan (Olympics) and keep on going.  Personally, I think we need more testing and more shutting things down when the results are positive - otherwise people are just continuing on "as usual" - Do you think testing needs to be continued and shutting things down when results are positive would spur peer-pressure?

 

 

It's Always Something . . . . Roseanna Roseannadanna
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Honored Social Butterfly


@GailL1 wrote:

 

There isn't any clarifying - it is just their choice. 

 

Do you think testing needs to be continued and shutting things down when results are positive would spur peer-pressure?

 

Actually, now that there is a proven vaccine, testing is moot.

 

If everyone got vaccinated, we would eventually reach herd immunity, and this disease would be a thing of the past.

 

But people have made an issue of the vaccination process.

 

Vaccinations were not an issue in the past. When the polio vaccine came out, we all went to the health department or elsewhere and got our polio vaccine.... no more polio.

 

The anti-vaxxers are CHOOSING to put my family and others at risk.

Honored Social Butterfly

Testing is why the Yankees game got cancelled.  LA County, CA has initiated the mask wearing rule for everybody again indoors.  They are doing this for the same reason as before - to stop the spread. 

 

Those vaccinated can still carry the virus and there are break-through cases.  You can pretty much be assured that you will not die if you have been vaccinated.  That's the saving grace [ good odds] of the vaccine even though NO vaccine is 100%.

 

Since nobody really knows who has or has not been vaccinated and cases are still rising in every state, they are just continuing the mitigation methods in place before.  I think this is a wise decision and each of us that are vaccinated can do the same.

 

To create herd immunity, pretty much the whole world has to be vaccinated sooner or later cause we travel around A LOT.  

 

Have you forgotten about the Cutter Polio Vaccine incident - That didn't go over too well - kids got the virus - but people did start getting their kids vaccinated - but it took (5) + years to reach 97% gone.  Even in the 70's there were still a few cases popping up here and there - caused by the vaccine itself (oral).  It wasn't until 2000 that we went back to the injectable type.

 

A similar thing happened with the pertussis vaccine (whooping cough) - it morphed due to side effects - they weakened it to avoid this and that's why we have to have boosters.

 

People deny all sorts of things based on some belief or suspicions they may have.  

According to Peter Salk (Jonas Salk's son) , in a 2014 The Atlantic article, part of it is that all this bad info and suspicions come about because people have become complacent because these diseases aren’t rampant anymore.  Like the KHN article I link - some of these people had not been affected at all by covid, nor at the time did they know of anybody that had been affected by covid.

 

It is a great article - I have highlighted some of the point here in my post but here is the link to the whole thing:

 

The Atlantic : 10/28/2014 - The Anti-Vaccine Movement Is Forgetting the Polio Epidemic 

 

Peter [Salk] spoke with an interviewer in a 2014 article done by The Atlantic.  He reflected on why so many Americans came to distrust life-saving vaccines such as the one his father [ Jonas Salk] helped bring to the world. 

Don't you remember the different vaccines for polio - the oral one and the injectable one.  Yes, there was controversy - although back then, everybody did not have a public podium - 

 

He also said that today [2014] there is a lot of concerns about living naturally and not wanting to be exposed to things that are made in a laboratory.  

 

Back in the 1950s, people really looked to science and medicine as something that would make their lives better. But once the fear of these diseases began to subside, people started looking at other large-scale forces in the world—the Vietnam War, the government, and so on—and wondering, Can we trust large institutions? Can we trust pharmaceutical companies? I think that that’s something that’s driven people also: a sense of alienation.

 

Polio itself still hasn’t been totally eliminated in some countries. What’s holding that up?

Salk: The people who are working on polio eradication are doing everything they can, but there are still countries where there are conflicts, religious differences, cultural differences, political differences—and these are the countries where some kids haven’t been able to be reached with the vaccine that’s been used. India finally eliminated the wild virus a few years ago. Pakistan is the greatest problem right now, with all its internal turmoil. The disease still persists in Afghanistan, but that’s largely a result of what’s happening across the border in Pakistan. Nigeria has also so far never eliminated the wild virus.

 

We’ve now got vaccines that should be able to get rid of this virus forever. But until we can deal with these human interactions in a more constructive way, we’re not going to get there. That’s what holding things up. It’s not the scientific level; it’s the social level.

 

The world around us is so hugely complex, and that complexity comes from us.

 

The fundamental element that is evolving now in our sphere of existence is not matter, not life—it’s consciousness. The unit here is the mind. My father called this the metabiologic realm; it’s driven by choice. He often said that we are the products of the process of evolution, and we have become the process itself. It’s our responsibility to be making wise choices.

 

I feel certain that we will get there but maybe not for a good while - 

 

 

 

 

 

It's Always Something . . . . Roseanna Roseannadanna
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Honored Social Butterfly

Doesn't have anything to do with politics - just personal choice as well as risk.  The younger people have minimal degree of risk while the older person has more risk.  Also some people have had Covid already so why take the additional risk that the vaccine offers?

Honored Social Butterfly


@NOTHAPPENING wrote:

. . . . The younger people have minimal degree of risk while the older person has more risk.  


I believe that the young having less risk is currently being re-evaluated - that covers the age group of 20-30-40-50 - even some teenagers(12+) - now the real younger group 12 - 18 were the last to be approved to get the vaccine so maybe they can catch up quickly.  For the others, this new strain - Delta - as it is currently known - is more transmission-able and well, the other age groups like to mesh in crowds.  

 

In recent times, the US has not been big user/supported of vaccinations, unless mandated for something.  This doesn't seem to be much different.  

Guess as old / older people we have kind of learned our lesson but even there, the  (new or old) shingles vaccination isn't that well received by this age group - the targeted age group of over 50.  I think that comes back to the fact that many people have not experienced shingles or don't know anyone that has - thus it is no big deal to them - until they come down with a case of it - perhaps a very severe case.

I think this also applies to some segments of the covid UNvaccinated - they don't know anybody that has been affected by it . . . . . perhaps until now.

KHN 07/15/2021 - Twin Outbreak: Behind Wyoming and Colorado’s Anomalous Covid Spikes 

It's Always Something . . . . Roseanna Roseannadanna
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Honored Social Butterfly

 

 


@GailL1 wrote:


I think that comes back to the fact that many people have not experienced shingles or don't know anyone that has - thus it is no big deal to them - until they come down with a case of it - perhaps a very severe case.

Certain things need to be analyzed prior to decision-making.

 

I believe the COVID vaccine, saving you from death or severe ongoing disability is a no brainer.

 

When it comes to shingles, it is a different story.

 

I had shingles prior to a vaccine.

 

When the vaccine came out, I asked my doctor about it and he said that since I had shingles, that there was only a 10% chance of ever getting it again. He said with the shingles vaccine, those odds are reduced to 3%.

 

Based on those figures, I chose not to have that vaccine.

 

In fact, many feel that shingles doesn't fall in the realm of a serious health condition.

Honored Social Butterfly

@nctarheel 

It should be a no brainer, but that might require intellect and compassion…otherwise it may not be. 

Bronze Conversationalist

My grandmother had shingles multiple times. A friend had it several times. You may be lucky but I would not gamble on it. Please consider getting the vaccine.

 

Honored Social Butterfly

@nctarheel 

You can get shingles more than once - based on science.  And it is potentially serious.  The new double dose vaccine is very effective - much better than the old one.

CDC - Shingles (Herpes Zoster) 

I've also seen people that have spread it to their eyes leaving them damaged; pretty much blind.  I've seen people covered with shingles pox - not comfortable and not pretty either.  I know some who have had long term nerve damage too (PHN)  Other complications include:

  • pneumonia,
  • hearing problems,
  • brain inflammation (encephalitis), or
  • death.

I have chosen to get every vaccine that has been recommended - got the old shingles vac and now the double dose new one.  I've had all my boosters too as well as both pneumonia shots and a booster for the one that called for it.

 

I believe in vaccines - all of them.  I got the booster for the Tdap because I was going to be a new grandmother and did not want to infect my new grandbaby with pertussis before she got her own vacs.

 

BTW, we haven't licked Tetanus - people need a booster every (10) years to keep it at bay.

 

Like I said, people have choices when it comes to vaccines - 

 

 

It's Always Something . . . . Roseanna Roseannadanna
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Honored Social Butterfly

I guess I'm a "vaxxer"  but I'm not so sure about Zostovax (first shingles vaccine) and I actually got shingles 7 days after the shot was administered.  My doctor immediately notified Merck and stopping giving the shot and this was an approved vaccine!  Now if you look at Zostavax, it says as the leading side effect may actually cause shingles!  This vaccine was supposed to last a lifetime.  My doctor says "get the new vaccine".

 

I have had the Moderna 2 shots but not so much the new shingles shot!

Honored Social Butterfly

@NOTHAPPENING 

Yes, Zostovax did not have a good record of working  - about 60-something %.  

 

It is a LIVE vaccine and some of the problems with effectiveness is that people had to follow a protocol to store it, to thaw it, to give it (subQ rather than IM)   

 

My doc would not write a Rx for it - to be given at the pharmacy.  He said he would give it because that was the only way that he could assure it was done correctly.  However, I had to pay for it and then get reimbursed for it from Med D plan.  Back then that was the only way it worked with many Med D plans.  That's what I did and it took about a year and a whole lot of correspondence and documentation to recoup the $250 I paid for it.  

 

The new 2-dose shingle vaccine (Shringix) is NOT a live vaccine and has a real high success rate - 97% I believe.

It's Always Something . . . . Roseanna Roseannadanna
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Hi Everyone

Lets keep this discussion medical and not political please. Thanks! 

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