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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 981 of 1,378

“Industry has learned that debating the science is much easier and more effective than debating the policy. In field after field, year after year, conclusions that might support regulation are always disputed.” - David Michaels, Assistant Secretary of Labor for Occupational Safety and Health, in “Doubt Is Their Product” (2008) *

 

"The available data, responsibly interpreted, indicate little or no beneficial effect of water fluoridation on oral health."  - Dr. Kathleen Thiessen, 2006 National Research Council panelist (2011) **

 

The U.S. promoted fluoridation based on flawed studies & falsified evidence. Modern reviews have recognized every pro-fluoridation report prior to the 1980s as badly biased and unreliable. (Iheozor-Ejiofor et al. 2015McDonagh et al. 2000Yiamouyiannis 1990; Diesendorf 1986)

 

The evidence of harm caused by fluoridation is substantial and definitive. The hesitation to speak out against fluoridation is based on rhetorical devices, intimidation and disinformation  - consistent with campaigns mounted by pesticide giant Monsanto and the Tobacco industry.

 

Click here and then use PREVIOUS button  to read the 60 comments in oppostion to fluoridation that include personal testimony from AARP seniors and references to modern science from before this thread was overwhelmed on June 27, 2018 by a few fluoridationts. Also, a dozen 21st century environmental  citations re fluoridation's adverse impact on animals & plants can be accessed here

 

serveimage-93.jpegDoubt is Their Product - Convenient for promoting poisons and avoiding regulatory action

 

*Dr. Michaels is a well published epidemiologist with insight into the political machinations and astroturf efforts of industry propaganda that protects business plans and paychecks instead of people and planet. 

 

** Dr. Thiessen is a risk assessment expert who has sat on two National Research Councils concerned with health risks and fluoride. She has also said that “Elimination of community water fluoridation at the earliest possible date would be in the best interest of public health.”

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 982 of 1,378

I don't believe in dumping waste water into streams or rivers for any reason. . To me it is immoral and a denigration of our heritage and future. And dumping wastewater that is also fluoridated, and continuing to do so even after salmon spawning, that had been present for years  ends, that's downright mind-boggling. 

The math presented to claim salmon are unaffected when fluoridated water is duschsrged into their spawning grounds is laughable. The water salmon must navigate through near the discharge pipe cannot possibly dilute to a final concentration computed from M1V1=M2V2 (where M1 is 1 ppm, V1 is the discharge volume in a given period, V2 is the volume of river flow during that period, and M2 the final dilution level after thorough mixing. M2 is only valid after full mixing, not while it is mixing.  the concentration in which salmon swim is not simply M2. M2 is the concentration that would exist if the fluoride added were fully dispersed. It is not fully dispersed at the point of discharge. There is no expression that can compute the maximum level that salmon would be exposed to while navigating through the discharge area, particularly since they spawn in shallow water and swim  near the surface to to so. F is not uniform in concentration until after full mixing. 

There is no math that describes it adequately. Math without chemistry in a chemical problem is not useful and in fact misleads. 

If you choose to he misled I can't help you. But if anyone wants to not he misled then this post should help. 

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 983 of 1,378

The claim I don't care is insulting. CalEpa does not care. Unless there is absolute proof which neither i nor anyone has, the agency will not  make any demands on the city of sacramento. Hence  even though evidence of harm is beyond reasonable doubt (esp. published harm to human consumers) fluoridation and the discharges stand. 

Blame me all you want. The salmon industry in CA is dead and humans consuming fluoridated water have progressive compromised bone quality. Registering complaints and providing data are what I have done. And I disagree that it is pathetic. Absolute proof of visible harm with dental fluorosis has not halted fluoridation. Known bone accumulation in all consumers has not halted fluoridation. And neither will good correlative evidence of harm to salmon. Absolute proof sufficient for CalEpa to act is an unreasonable request by the agency and yet this is the way it is for this government advocated policy of fluoridating the country. What blame pray tell in that belongs to me? 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 984 of 1,378

RS:  "You honestly think that CalEpa has the power to demand the city of sacrmento stop discharging its wastewater into the Sacramento River and to build all new infrastructure to dump it somewhere else? And for some complaining salmon fishing companies?"

 

That's not what I said.  The Environmental Protection Agency of the State with the toughest environmental laws in the country has the power to stop water fluoridation if your claim, that effluent discharge from CWF communities is harmful to the environment, had any merit.  You bet they do!  

 

They have the power to force the auto industry to submit to California emmissions laws.  

 

RS:  "And you say it's that simple? Be my guest."

 

Why would I.  I don't believe a word you are saying.  You refuse to prove it mathematically.  You refuse to submit your data to the DTSC and allow their scientists, toxologists and other environmental experts to review it.  You simply lift up your hands and say, 'Ah, what's the use.'

 

That's the cheapest cop-out I've ever heard.  

 

RS:  "Most all Californians I know don't care that much to lose local salmon in their diets. We are not like Alaska where many peoples' and animals' sustenance depends on salmon such as many native tribes, orcas, and other marine life."

 

I will let your low opinion of your fellow Californians and their poor diets speak for itself.  That is really a pathetic comment.

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 985 of 1,378

And since the bone altering fluoridation program is accepted for the presumed benefit to teeth, then salmon collapses are also part of the deal. . 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 986 of 1,378

Most all Californians I know don't care that much to lose local salmon in their diets. We are not like Alaska where many peoples' and animals' sustenance depends on salmon such as many native tribes, orcas, and other marine life. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 987 of 1,378

I should know something already?

You honestly think that CalEpa has the power to demand the city of sacrmento stop discharging its wastewater into the Sacramento River and to build all new infrastructure to dump it somewhere else? And for some complaining salmon fishing companies?

And you say it's that simple? Be my guest. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 988 of 1,378

For a city to stop discharging into nearby rivers would cost a veritable fortune to reroute waste through constructed facilities and pipes etc. Once an estabolished practice exists its nearly impossible to get a city to stop. They would rather argue the law, get exemptions, and push papers than to construct all new waste facilities. This is old news. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 989 of 1,378

In a heartbeat? Please.

Cities have historically discharged treated wastewater into the rivers. That is why no one skis in Needles and why soap suds line the hanks of the colorado river after he discharge pipe. And calepa does absolutely nothing to fight this longstanding city practice  n CA. 

A heartbeat? Come on

 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 990 of 1,378

Every city that discharges any contaminant into public water supplies,  regardless of state regulations, must  have an NPDES permit to do so. The problem for continuous discharging of fluoride, an EPA recognized contaminant in water,  Is that water districts do not regard fluoride when intentionally added, as a discharged item. So they don't think they need the permit for fluoride and no one  enforces the requirement for fluoride if the fluoride and its other contaminants was done intentionally (as mandated by CA law).

Again, why is it my fault that I cannot get calepa to forbid fluoridated water discharges into rivers (or water systems intended for consumption)? 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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