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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 961 of 1,248

Excellent idea. 

And stopping drinking F water and using natural toothpaste without F would eliminate 85% of the F in the bloodstream (about 15% comes from food in a fluoridated city.) Smiley SadNRC)  

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 962 of 1,248

This thread is supposed to facilitate  discussion among seniors who have found fluoridation causes illness or worsens their health, not to facilitate online harrassment.

 

I suggest new vistors read the oldest 60 comments posted between Feb 2015 - Feb 2018, before the fluoride-trolls descended and overwhelmed the thread with their vindictive rhetoric. 

 

Lifetime.jpgLifetime Impact

For more, see:

Life Decay: http://pregnancyandfluoridedonotmix.com/lifedecay.html

2016 Diabetes Model: 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/08/160817132107.htm 

2015 Thyroid Study: 

http://medicalxpress.com/news/2015-02-fluoridation-england-linked-higher-underactive.html 

Dental Damage per 2011-12 US surveillance:

http://jdh.adha.org/content/92/1/23

etc.  

 

* Review of 2006 NRC report is very readable:  http://www.fluorideresearch.org/393/files/FJ2006_v39_n3_p163-172.pdf

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 963 of 1,248

Dr. Bill, you say, "proponents have failed to provide one prospective double blind study on efficacy and the FDA is not convinced."

 

Response:  The FDA has nothing to do with Community Water Fluoridation (CWF), and you know that.  A double blind study for CWF would be nearly impossible to carry out . . and you know that too.  

 

And the FDA is convinced.  According to the FDA, "Drinking fluoridated water may reduce the risk of [dental caries or tooth decay]." . . . and that is all "proponents" of optimally fluoridated water have ever claimed.  https://www.fda.gov/food/labelingnutrition/ucm073602.htm

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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 964 of 1,248

Dr. Richard, you say, "The notion that no adverse effects ever occur after drinking   fluoridated water for a lifetime has never been proven."

 

That is a nonsensical con.  It has never been proven that drinking pure pristine water over a lifetime will cause no adverse effects.  It has never been proven that breathing pure air does not cause adverse effects.  It has never been proven that anything is completely safe.  You can't prove the absolute safety of anything.

 

But the fact that hundreds of millions of people drink optimally fluoridated water on a daily basis, and there has never been any documented harm from it, makes it a pretty sure bet that there are no adverse effects.

 

Mercola tanning beds aren't safe because there are documented cases of people getting cancer from them.  That's why the FDA gave Mercola a warning letter about unethical sales practices . . well, actually, Mercola has already gotten 4 warning letters about its unethical practices. 

 

The Fluoride Action Network is part of Mercola's Health Liberty conglomerate, isn't it? 

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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 965 of 1,248

 You are saying that the FDA calls artificially fluoridated water "an uncontrolled use of anunapproved drug."  End quote.

 

Show me anything on any FDA website, anything official from the FDA, in which this government agency has identified optimally fluoridated water a "drug."

 

You say, "There appear to be two different world views, those who appreciate natural foods and pristine water, and those who advocate artificially adulterating water with synthetic fluorides and foods made with such water."

 

Response:  Corn is a genetically modified food.  If the original food had not been "adulterated" by man, you would still be eating grass.  If water wasn't "adulterated" by man, millions of people would be dying from typhys, cholera, and other water-borne diseases.  And if nature wasn't "adulterated" by man, you would be walking to Alaska instead riding on a nice train.

 

There are two schools of thought.  There are people who haven't thought it through, because they would still be living in caves instead of houses if they had never "adulterated" nature, and people who are intelligent enough to realize that we were given a brain so that we could use it and make our world better.

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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 966 of 1,248
  • I'm on the train heading north on my trip to Alaska. We stopped at Klamath Falls Oregon where the massive fresh water lake is devoid of any measurable fluoride, great drinking water. And yet fluoridationists would have you believe that this pristine water is somehow deficient because if you don't add fluoride compounds into it, you will get dental decay. Total nonsense. Many people (including my uncle and many acquaintances) .never had a single cavity their entire life by not eating sugar and brushing with baking soda daily, all without fluoridated water. . Clean water is to be desired and appreciated because the purpose of drinking water is to hydrate tissue (with H2O), not to be confused with a purpose of being a decay preventive dentifrice as is advertised for fluoride in toothpaste.
  • There appear to be two different world views, those who appreciate natural foods and pristine water, and those who advocate artificially adulterating water with synthetic fluorides and foods made with such water. These two views are incompatible.Tbe CDC and FDA are at odds and I support the efforts of the FDA as described earlier. 
Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 967 of 1,248

The FDA is quite careful on this issue. . The 1975 ruling  that fluoride is considered unsafe to add to foods is proper. Who would add a dash  of something used as rodent poison, no matter how small the dash, when it would have no useful purpose? Eating fluoride does not affect dental decay. Likewise, fluoride water is mot an effective ingestible decay preventive dentifrice..Again, the accurate data on man and caged animals that we have adequately demonstrate this. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Frequent Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 968 of 1,248

David,

I agree, we are going in circles.   Given the scientific evidence of harm from too much fluoride and added fluoride adds to the excess, does not seem to be something you understand. 

 

I don't think I can be more clear than saying, too many are ingesting too much fluoride.  20% of adolescents with moderate/severe fluorosis is too much.  NHANES 2011-2012. 

 

You ask for proof.  The FDA requires the manufacturer to provide proof of efficacy at a specific dosage and then safety at that dosage.  The FDA rejected the evidence of efficacy as incomplete. 

 

We could argue about gravity the same way.  Science has not "proven" all aspects of gravity. . . or anything.  But you and I know that gravity must exist.  The "degree" of proof is debated. . . global warming etc.

 

And yes, if someone wants to choose poorer health or lower quality of health, that is their choice.  Called informed consent.  As a clinician, I understand that I'm not god and do not have all the answers for each person.  Health is their choice.  If the only source of fluoride were from fluoridation, and if caries were contagious, and if caries were lethal, we would be closer to the same side of this discussion.   

 

However, you are assuming the additional fluoride exposure from fluoridation is reducing dental caries.  However, proponents have failed to provide one prospective double blind study on efficacy and the FDA is not convinced.  Yes, we still have to do lots of research on efficacy.

 

For example, the research fails to consider many of these confounding problems:

 

  • A.   Not one Study corrects for Unknown Confounding Factors
  • B.   Not one Prospective Randomized Controlled Trial   
  • C.   Socioeconomic status usually not controlled
  • D.   Inadequate size
  • E.   Difficulty in diagnosing decay
  • F.   Delay in tooth eruption not controlled
  • G.   Diet: Vitamin D, calcium, strontium, sugar, fresh and frozen year round
    vegetables and fruit consumption not controlled.
  • H.   Total exposure of Fluoride not determined
  • I.    Oral hygiene not determined
  • J.     Not evaluating Life time benefit
  • K.    Estimating or assuming subject actually drinks the fluoridated water.
  • L.    Dental treatment expenses not considered
  • M.    Breast feeding and infant formula excluded
  • N.   Fraud, gross errors, and bias not corrected. 
  • O.   Genetics not considered

 

And may I suggest you read the primary research on fluoride exposure. 

 

Bill Osmunson DDS MPH

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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 969 of 1,248

The notion that no adverse effects ever occur after drinking   fluoridated water for a lifetime has never been proven. In fact it is absolutely certain  that F accumulates in bone where it has no functional purpose after ingesting the first sip. Just because a pin pick doesnt produce noticeable health consequences doesn't mean one should continue doing it Lifetime.

Halting  fluoride Ingestion does not deprive kids of dental health. The absence of F does not cause caries. They are caused by eating sugar and not cleaning teeth afterward F has no intrinsic ability to fight caries. The Zeigelbecker data prove the 1930s correlation was not causation. What F causes is fluorosis of bone and teeth. Dental caries are prevented by good dental hygiene. 

 F Is useless for this purpose and  has no physiologic role in man and animals. Fluoridation alters kids bone structure and strength so let's protect kids from that while promoting good dental hygiene. 

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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Regular Social Butterfly
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Re: Fluoride - Demand AARP Take Action

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Message 970 of 1,248

The FDA requires specific FDA labeling of various aspects of food, such as various mineral contents, calories. etc. But FDA labelimg of fluoride in water is prohibited because fluoride does not belong in  water and  It is not a nutrient mineral. Private companies that make their own  labels for F content in bottled water are on their own. 

 The FDA does not arrest them. But the FDA makes it clear it is not an FDA label for F on water bottles. FDA labels for F are on toothpaste boxes stating do not swallow  or use in children under 6. But FDA labeling for F on water  is prohibited by the FDA. It ruled its addition into water is an uncontrolled use of an unapproved drug but does not demand it be removed  and does not approve of its addition. F is allowed in foods  But the FDA ruled that F is considered unsafe to (intentionally) add to foods.in 1975.

Richard Sauerheber, Ph.D.
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