Lifetime Fitness Hours Limited

[rt23921016]

As your Medicare Fitness Program Administrator may have shared with you, I am pleased to confirm that we have renewed agreements so members on eligible Medicare plans may continue accessing Life Time clubs as of January 1, 2024.

The new agreements were established based on the rate your provider is paying on your behalf and includes revised club access hours effective January 1, 2024:

• Monday through Friday from 9:30 a.m. to 3:00 p.m.
• Saturday: 2:00 p.m. to close.
• Sunday: all open hours.
• Note: Members will have continued access to all ARORA Aqua classes at any time with a reservation and club arrival within 30 minutes of the class start time.

[RG361135 · Accepted solution]

 This is still not right. Who is "I" as a contributor on this thread? I wrote a letter directly to the Chairman/CEO of LFT. He could not even respond to my letter. It is ridiculous. I was with LTF since it opened its doors here in N. TX. in 2003. I have no desire to pay them more money. We are not interrupting anyone working out at LTF. They do not have to spend any additional money to hire staff. It is just a money making idea. Look at the number of members they lost after the lockdown? All they are trying to do is increase revenue. This is still AGE DISCRIMINATION. This is STILL WRONG. 

[js8864]

This is completely BS because the company receives millions from Medicare and only a small percentage of those seniors use the club on a regular basis if at all.

[tt55778876]

Medicare does not pay LT anything.  UHC pays LT.

[JohnG515922]

The argument that Life Time would have been unable to renew without this change is obviously false, because failure to renew the Medicare contract would have cost the company millions of dollars. According to an article in the Star Tribune, 18,000 Minnesotans work out at Life Time as part of their Medicare coverage, which equals to income for the company of more than $1,000,000 a month or $12,000,000 per year from one state alone. Here's the link: https://www.startribune.com/life-time-limits-gym-access-medicare-seniors-prioritizing-other-members-.... Life Time's third quarter 2023 net income dropped from $24.7 million in third quarter 2022 to $7.9 million in third quarter 2023. Here's the link from Life Time itself: https://ir.lifetime.life/news-events/press-releases/detail/1029/life-time-reports-third-quarter-fisc.... Life Time's stock has been anemic. Stock grader on Barron's has downgraded the stock from "hold" to "sell." The company can't afford to lose the Medicare market.

It's trying to boost revenue by either forcing Medicare members to pay more to use the facility at any time or to use the facility during off-peak hours to free up capacity to be able to increase its membership. This new policy is clearly discriminatory, because it singles out a particular group for inequitable treatment based upon age and socio-economic status. The company is violating its own non-discrimination policy which prevents discrimination based on age. Even though I could pay to use the facility at any time, I deeply resent that the company has decided to discriminate against me and others like me to improve its bottom line. There were and are other options. One of which is incentivizing all members to use the facility during off peak hours. If you're a senior, join another gym. #LifeTimeDiscriminates

[RaulD660572]

If this is discriminatory,  it is to a younger group.  Even with the new policy, seniors have access to a  wonderful facility at a very much reduced cost.

Younger people are not given the same option.  That is,  an option to a Lower tier which I have found quite common in the gyms I have belonged.

All of them tend to go out of business.

LTF is not so busy at those hours but have to pay electricity etc to keep up the saunas, steam room, pools, etc.

It makes good business sense to offer a lower tier access hours.

It is still very cheap at that.

At one of the LTFs here, at 10am the pickle ball courts were packed.  Most if not sell seniors.  On saturday, at 215 pm a couple of aurora classes packed more than before, as well as the pickle ball. 

PB is indoor!  Cheap membership for that alone.

I think seniors are still seeing tremendous value.

I happen to just pay full for me and my wife.  Her favorite classes are outside of hours.  We get our moneys worth, seven days a week, some very hard days, some yoga days, some PB days, so many options.

[js8864]

On top of this, only a fraction of those members the company is collecting from Medicare actually attend the club on a regular basis.

[RG361135 · Accepted solution]

 This is still not right. Who is "I" as a contributor on this thread? I wrote a letter directly to the Chairman/CEO of LFT. He could not even respond to my letter. It is ridiculous. I was with LTF since it opened its doors here in N. TX. in 2003. I have no desire to pay them more money. We are not interrupting anyone working out at LTF. They do not have to spend any additional money to hire staff. It is just a money making idea. Look at the number of members they lost after the lockdown? All they are trying to do is increase revenue. This is still AGE DISCRIMINATION. This is STILL WRONG. 

[NancyH23128]

Do we have any legal recourse?  Sure sounds like discrimination to me?🤷‍♀️

[NancyH23128]

Absolutely correct!  Not only is this restriction for Seniors, it also applies to our handicapped community since many of us have Silver Sneakers (or One Pass is the new name I guess 🤷‍♀️). Imagine trying to explain this nonsense to a child who is “on the spectrum “!  From what I understand, LTF is the ONLY fitness center that has contacts with Medicare that is implementing the restricted access policy. 

[RaulD660572]

I don't understand the complaining at all.  All gyms throughout my life have had a tier system.  No access to sauna, etc.  LTF was the first not to do that , I least I did not notice as I had so much.

They did require extra pay for some classes.   It is important to notice they stopped that last year for a lot of members, so now those extras are included.

It makes sense to have a tier system. 

And very important to notice they allow YOU TO  upgrade and still pay less than a lot of members.

[WilliamB640938]

I totally agree with you.  This is not age discrimination.  Seniors can get the same privileges as any other members and do so at a lower price.  I think the complaining is due to what behavioral economists call "loss aversion."  Having something taken away is much more painful than getting the same thing is pleasurable.  ("Thinking Fast and Slow" by Daniel Kahneman is a great source on this).

[RaulD660572]

Very true.  LTFs mistake was doing it in the first place.  They should have done like a 5% or maybe 10% discount, if at all.  And that would be inline with many senior discounts.

I actually think the unfounded complaining, the entitled complaining causes a backlash, it does lead to people being annoyed at the "complaining group" and if u look like that group u get lumped in, self fulling prophesy.

The complaining should directed more at like fixing SS, medicare, health costs.  How about something simple as a matter of principle,  have the feds be  in Obama care, and not their special health care.  

Same pension  as avg company.

Entitlements are created by the fed, as a tool knowing that people later can't live without them.  The pain you mentioned. 

[JimK301599]

Guys I think you are missing my point. I am not blaming LIFETIME Fitness I am trying to understand all the entities in the chain. I think it is good to take a look at the earnings reports of these insurers.  Also understand something if you were a long-term person who had a contract with LIFETIME and wish to sign up for something as you had it will be very different than it was.

[WilliamB640938]

UnitedHealthcare makes a fortune.  The profitability of United and the costs of healthcare in the US are a much bigger problem that gym subsidies.  There is zero evidence that subsidizing gym memberships decrease healthcare costs.  I have been a long time member of Life Time.  I have just retired and am just starting Medicare.  Full access to Life Time with signature membership and no limitation of hours will now cost me $110 less per month than it did.  I view that as a very good deal, but of course I did not have the benefit of the even better deal last year.  My wife has not been a Life Time member and will now take advantage of the no cost option with the limited hours.  We’re very happy with all this, but I do understand that those who are experiencing a reduction in this benefit are not.

[JimK301599]

Having been a sourcing Director for a 2 FORTUNE 100 companies I have am trying to understand why seniors are now treated differently at LTF. I have gotten some feedback that both AARP United Healthcare and Medicare have cut back on their funding to LIFETIME FITNESS hence LFT had to modify their program naturally pushing seniors into nonpeak times. The chairman of LFT may not have been able to respond based on nondisclosures. I know my supplemental insurance continues to go up. Since this was a prime benefit from AARP-UNITED let's public challenge AARP to provide us details regarding a breakdown of costs for AARP United HEALTHCARE, MONEY FROM MEDICARE and the payments made to LIFETIME FITNESS 2023 vs 2024 plan.  All I am looking for is transparency from AARP who are supposed to be watching out for us.    take Everyone challenge everyone involved with AARP.

[RaulD660572]

The problem arose more because they were treated differently in the first place.  LTF made a mistake, they should have simply done a discount,  like 5% maybe 10%, if at all.

Seniors can upgrade, to still pay less than a lot of members, there is no different treatment for seniors.

Well actually, and ironically,  LTF still offers seniors a bigger benefit than non seniors. Which is an opportunity at a MUCH REDUCED cost have access to a very nice gym.

Preferential treatment. 

LTF still gives a huge benefit to  seniors who want that MUCH REDUCED access vs choosing some other gym.

[JimK301599]

• I have been a member of Lifetime fitness for 23 years and a member of AARP for just about the same amount of time.  I would think both organizations would be embarrassed about the messaging from this policy.  Naturally I avoid the Saturday morning hours and the evenings because of the crowds. The policy sends a clear message from both organizations. 
• You may be a member but not a really. Isn't that what AARP is supposed to fix?

[RaulD660572]

Many gyms,  all the ones I ever was a member of had tier memberships. 

I always chose those gyms to get the cheapest access.

Sometimes I belonged to 3 gyms at a time.  I played competitive adult soccer many years, commute to a job I enjoyed was 1hr.  So I made sure I had a gym to run off to morning, lunch, dinner.  Cheap.

I have been a member of LTF since they opened in my town.  My wife loved their classes.  I had asked for a lower tier.  Much to my disappointment,  they did not have one.  I became used to that. 

I did not like that some classes cost extra, even though I never, ever done a class.  They fixed that.

My long post is to show that I too am a long,  long time member. 

I find the LTF policy towards seniors still top beneficial.  They offer seniors acess to a very nice gym at a very much reduced cost that non seniors don't get a chance.

The fair thing would be no benefit, maybe 5% or 10% discount if, if, they wat to.

Biggest point, any senior can simply upgrade.

[js8864]

Good point JimK. I agree … how hard did AARP work at helping w this negotiation.

[NancyH23128]

Great point!  Who was involved in this negotiation?  Just LTF and Medicare?  Seems a bit one sided to me!

[RaulD660572]

I would think very hard.  Or LTF not very good.  

The benefit to seniors just seems like too much.  They should simply offer a lower tier to all ages.

I would prefer no lower tier.  I actually asked for one when I first joined, see my other post.

[JillS901961]

I spoke with Silver & Fit, the company managing our Medicare fitness benefits for VIVA Medicare, regarding the original notification about reduced hours. I discovered two important things that add to this conversation: (1) The amount LTF receives from our Medicare plan is roughly ⅓ of the normal price of an individual membership. At least through our plan they aren't getting a full membership amount. If this is indeed the case throughout the U.S., as awful as the whole thing is, it's not actually ageism. But, the second thing I was told was the LTF was discontinuing Medicare memberships completely, effective January 2025. That has not been made clear in any communications coming from anyone associated with these memberships. Perhaps that's only in my state (AL), but I doubt it. Since LTF went public and is now a stockholder concern, I have seen a decline in the club. Another factor—and as a 73-year old retired teacher I have seen this personally—our generation may very well be the last generation with any sense of brand loyalty. As a group, we typically not only stay with something good, but are free to promote it as well. And, at least in my experience at our club, it's the men my age that pick up after themselves. The majority of the mounds of towels strewn about rarely, if ever, come from our hands. Removing this demographic will lead to greater attrition, not larger memberships. And finally, to make a decision of this magnitude from the boardrooms of the corporate headquarters, and then mandate it for all the clubs, with no regard for geographic differences is, at the end of the day, short-sighted and just plain bad business. I too have written LTF HQ and heard nothing back.

[RaulD660572]

Definitely most important, "The amount LTF receives from our Medicare plan is roughly ⅓ of the normal price of an individual membership".

They should not have done such a great benefit to just seniors, because it is age discrimination on younger ages.

The lower tier should be across all ages, very fair.

[RG361135]

I QUIT LTF and today enjoyed my first workout at Cowboy Fit. I am glad that I have options around me to select from. Goodbye, LTF you are not the only facility. Stay healthy everyone it makes a difference. 

[js8864]

Absolutely agree w you.

[js8864]

i absolutely agree that this is age discrimination. It is yet another way to marginalize seniors. It is demoralizing. The gym I go to is 1/2 mile from my home and it is never over crowded during the hours I am there. I also pay an additional $200 for Pilates classes. I will likely leave the club.

[SuzanneC850681]

This is so true. I went there today for the first time to attempt  my fitness goals.  I have Medicare/ssi due to my spinal cord was injured during a motor vehicle accident. I’m finally able to transition from physical therapy and be on my fitness journey. I feel like the word is so cliche but I felt so literally ‘marginalized’ by my experience today. I went during the required times and was excited to take an intro Pilates class and when I purchased my Pilates class pass and tried to schedule classes - let’s just say it was one of the worst experiences. No one deserves to be treated that way. The optics are unnecessarily giving weird cringy classism ageism racism whatever ism vibes and they really need to look at themselves and not mis-judge or group anyone who comes in into any category. They are walking a thin line. I’m still processing this one it turned out to be such a bummer experience. 

[WilliamB640938]

Personally, I don't think this is age discrimination but rather is based on the dollars that LFT gets per member through this program.  I have heard that as an AARP Medicare Plan member one can pay a reduced amount for all hour access.  If so, that seems fair to me.  Does anyone know if this is correct?

[js8864]

Yes it’s true if $1,200/year is a reduced price. Great senior discount … all of what Medicare pays + $100/mo. Oh wait … that is not a senior discount.

[JillS901961]

II don't know if the companies Medicare providers use for the fitness component of their plans are comparable. Our plan is an HMO with VIVA Medicare, but they use Silver & Fit to administrate the fitness component. In any case, my wife has been in LT's yoga program for a dozen years, and the classes she has the most community with are partially off limits now. So, we upgraded her "Medicare" membership to "Medicare Signature" just today. $100/month is the additional fee. The club rate for the "Signature" membership is $179, and the "Over 65" membership is $159. The club is four blocks from our house, and her AMD has affected her driving, so going elsewhere wasn't an option. Anyway, that's one piece of data for your question.

[JillS901961]

Another piece of data that is troubling is that LT in our area has four tiers of memberships, one of which is the "65 Plus Membership" which has full club access, minus a few things. If LT is asking us to pay $100 to upgrade to their most expensive membership, it seems they are getting $79 from Medicare. If we were given the option to upgrade to "65 Plus" the additional payment would be $40 instead of $100.