The House Bill Would Mean a Tax Hike for Millions of Seniors. Learn More

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Silver Conversationalist
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: Robin Hood Myth

Message 11 of 96 (253 Views)

You need to find the facts and not propaganda.  I am certain this bill will not take effect until 2019-2020.  Middle class is from 50-200k  not 50-250k and will likely benft a little from the tax bill.  The poor benifit the most.  The wealthy pay the most and the very wealthy will pay most of the tax.  Every year you will give Uncle Sam half what you make over 1 million. How is that a 5% decrease it looks like a 20% increase to me.  The middle class will benift the most if they didn't itemise. I will likely lose some now but most of my deductions are going away over the next few years, so the bigger standard deduction will likely help me by the time the bill becomes law.  I will need to buy a new vacation house.

Silver Conversationalist
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: Robin Hood Myth

Message 12 of 96 (181 Views)

Robin Hood took from the rich to give to the poor.  That was their money and it was taken by force. 

 

I may retire close to 70.  This is my last job.  No one will hire someone pushing 70.  Thanks to an insane stock market, I can say if I retired at 62 I would have likely had 25% of what I hope to have at 70.  It looks as if I may double my nest egg from 65 to 70.  For the last few years I have been making 15-20% on return.  That does crazy things to coumpounded interest.  Doubling in about 5 years.  We are too cheap to spend that lkind of money.  We are starting to take nice vacations now that money is not an issue.

 

They are now predicting if you are alive and 65 or older most of us will see 90.  The odds makers are predicting 85 because they are conservitive on how much longer we will live due to medical advances.  Most of my friends are figuring they will not see 80 but they are all very ignorant.

Silver Conversationalist
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: The Fed is 'Robin Hood'

Message 13 of 96 (182 Views)

Even though you are right on a good deal, you are probably off on a lot.  Yes, the government will take care of you if you don't have the money.  Don't expect that to be confortable.  Expect that you will be lucky if your diapers are changed once in 24 hrs. if you need a nursing home.  You will be powerless to effect changes.  Welfare makes less than half minimum wage and if they double the MW your life will be misreable.

 

Actually the middle class also gets a free ride and that goes up to 200k.  It is the less than 1%s who pay for everything.  They give up half what they make after their first million each year.  If you can't make it on over a million a year I can't be sorry for you.  

 

Who ever thought life was fair?

Conversationalist
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎02-10-2010

The Fed is 'Robin Hood'

Message 14 of 96 (183 Views)

The rich pay more in taxes than the middle class while the poor don't pay taxes yet get to collect a tax refund; therefore, given the current tax laws, the federal government is already a 'Robin Hood' by stealing from the rich and giving it away to the poor.

 

The poor also get to indulge in welfare, food stamps, subsidized/free housing and medical care, etc., and all these 'Robin Hood' programs are provided mostly by the federal government at the expense of the middle class and the upper income brackets.

 

It seems to me that the poor don't have to worry about their retirement years 'cause they'll simply continue to be wards of the state.  The middle class have a choice to prepare to maintain their standard of living or slide into the poor bracket.  The rich don't have to worry much about retirement except to avoid overpaying in taxes.

 

It's all about choices, still, but it's a bummer when things aren't equitable nor balanced such that the middle class and the rich get stuck with the tax burden.  As it stand now, the Trump proposed tax plan will continue to favor the poor and the rich will enjoy a 5% tax reduction while the middle class gets to absorb a 5% tax increase thus making it harder to live blissfully in retirement on fixed incomes.

 

Robin Hood doesn't do a very good job...  Smiley Happy

 

Info Seeker
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎11-16-2015

Re: Robin Hood Myth

Message 15 of 96 (178 Views)

And.... here is a re-writing of history, or a commonly held fairly tale. Robin Hood was known for taking from the rich and giving to the poor. However you wish to change my allegory, how would you feel about someone taking your money from you, which you earned, without your permission, and just giving it to people who have not earned it.

Actually, that happens a plenty now with the various welfare programs we now have. I worked 27 years in low income housing, I'll admit to being a bit cynical about the subject, having seen what I've seen, repeatedly.

Still, to try to get this back on subject, retiring early is a privilege. Or a hard earned right. Once the time to take advantage of that opportunity arises, many are able and willing to do so. It's been one of the best decisions of my life. I count on every thing I have to do so, and so long as not much changes, I'll be okay, or better than okay. I am certainly factoring into the equation the Social security due to me, that I forcibly paid into. To say I am better off than the spendthrifts who save nothing for retirement, and thus they should be entiteled to my retirement is, frankly, an insult to the work ethic and savings ethic I have lived by all my life to put myself in this position.

Conversationalist
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎02-10-2010

Robin Hood Myth

Message 16 of 96 (180 Views)

Robin Hood took/stole from the Sheriff, the appointed tax collector, and gave to the poor because he felt that the poor were being overtaxed.

 

Had Robin Hood been a more equitable and benevolent hoodlum he would've also returned some of the money to the rich land owners who paid the most in taxes.

 

Ironically, the current tax laws actually favor the poor as will the proposed new tax reforms; however, the proverbial middle class ($50k - $250) will pay more taxes in 2018 than they do now.  The rich will make out with a 5% decrease in taxes while the middle class will have a 5% increase.  The poor will get to continue not paying taxes but getting unmerited tax credits and deductions so that they'll get tax refunds at our expense.

 

Where is Robin Hood when you need him?  Smiley Happy

Info Seeker
Posts: 4
Registered: ‎11-16-2015

Re: lead 'em to the water trough

Message 17 of 96 (178 Views)

Except.... they don't want to reap what they sow. I'm talking about all the cries for means testing. So many cry that"we" can afford to live without SS, while they are in "need" of more, so the government should take our SS away from us and give it to them, who have spent every dine as fast as they could. That is what they want to reward us with for taking financial care of ourselves and living frugally and preparing for the future. 

How does everyone like the story of Robin Hood now, where he takes from the rich and gives to the poor?

Conversationalist
Posts: 9
Registered: ‎02-10-2010

lead 'em to the water trough

Message 18 of 96 (178 Views)

Far too many people want to live for today which is irresponsible 'cause when they retire they're basically destitute and a burden to others; however, we can all be lead to water but not all will drink, especially when it calls for sacrifice.

 

I failed to mention in my previous entry is that being debt-free while in retirement helps out tremendously.  I've been debt-free since before I retired and 5 years before I retired I spent a lot of money 'upgrading' my retirement home so I wouldn't have to worry about it as I got older.

 

I have no needs that go unmet.  We all have wants and desires but they're secondary to needs but today's generation, the millennials, think otherwise unfortunately.

 

To each his own and we do reap what we sow.  Smiley Happy

 

 

Gold Conversationalist
Posts: 52
Registered: ‎02-22-2009

Re: Retiring early - share your experience! Please!

Message 19 of 96 (204 Views)

@uechapa, Thank you for your insight.  I'm going to share your post with my neices and nephews.  They are always bemoaning about their "slave pay".  They change jobs so frequently (chasing the next gig/salary) I'm always dumbfounded at their complaints. They never seem to have difficulties getting another job. Because they don't stay employed at a company long enough to become vested,  I am constantly stressing to them the importance of saving and funding an independent retirement portfolio.  I remind them that it does not matter how short/long they stay at a company,  or job/payroll title, or their payscale.  What matters is their sustained long-term and lifelong commitment to saving and investing while they are earning.

Yes...Life happens.  And, as long as you earn an income while life is " happening", there is no excuse not to include saving/investing as part of living your life.  My parents taught me how to budget and save/plan for possible emergencies; but they were not long-term savers or investors.  Their focus was to keep the bills paid.  Retirement was a dirty word to my parents.  They planned on "dying with their boots on".

In the 80s one of my mentors was a school bus driver who retired on SS and EE Savings bonds.  I was initially shocked by that.  However, she was a bus driver for over 30+ years and she saved and bought savings bonds every year for 30+ years.  This woman lived WELL.  She did not live an extravagant lifestyle; but, she wanted for nothing and anything she wanted to do or buy she could afford it.  Her motto was, " I keep the streets hot!". She loved being behind the wheel, and she was always on the go.  I tried to hang out with her and her friends--it was exhausting, but fun.  I was in my late 20s she and the others were in their 70s and 80s. I felt privileged that they allowed me to hangout with them.

She and several other mentors schooled me about the one rule to live by regarding planning for a successful retirement:  Saving/investing is a lifestyle choice. Living by that principle rule helped me to retire at 58 the way (financially) that I wanted to retire. I hope I can imprint this same principle rule into the mindset of my neices and nephews.

Fey Lady
Silver Conversationalist
Posts: 36
Registered: ‎11-14-2012

Re: Retiring early - share your experience! Please!

Message 20 of 96 (235 Views)

I couldn't agree with you more.  None of this is rocket science as long as you don't try to move your 401k out into an IRA. Yoou out to keep your money in index funds and maybe a well reguarded defensive stock fund. Moving out is actually where the opportunity for real growth is but also that is where you tend to get ripped off.  You need to know your stuff if you head out into the jungle.  Most brokers are more interested in their nest egg than yours.  It doesn't have to be that way but it is.  There are undocumented kick backs to brokerage firms and the brokers for selling many securities.  You can't sell a fund to your client unless it is approved by the brokerage firm.  How much do you want to guess only funds with kickback can be sold.  My wife was shopping for a broker for her uncle since she took over his finances.  I was hoping to find another competent and honest financial guy so we could get our information from more than one source.  I let her do all the talking and I listened and took notes.  Out of the 6 brokers we interviewed only one was looking out for us.  They were proud of their return on investment and how they positioned your investments for the maximum stability and safety.  Everything was specific and in writing.  They had their performance charts which you were given.a copy.  They were hanging them selves if they were lying. The interview was specific and technical.  Those guys left their brokerage firm and didn't bring us a long.  We were left with a 'green horn' and tried to get us to convert his large cash reserve to bonds to 'stableize our account'.  I asked why were bonds more stable than cash.  She didn't have an answer for that but continued to try to make the sale.  I asked her why this was a smart move for us.  She gave us some weak BS and I said the Fed is at 0 interest right now so it can't go lower so we can make money but you are setting us up to lose a good deal of money.  Since you can't come up with any reason why this is good for us but I can see how it is bad for us why push foer the deal?  You must stand to make a lot of money for you and your firm.  I asked he if the bonds she was selling were toxic and she didn't know.  They probably were a mix of poor risk to bad risk bonds.  That is where everyione but the client makes the most money.  We went through a few more highly reputable brokers.  They all tried tio sell us something we didn't want to buy.  None were technical or specific.  Everyone claimed they would make us rich but with no specifics or track records on paper.  Even my wife who isn't all that technical could chase them up a tree.  She got tired and went wiith our broker.  Her friend who had that honest broker got tired of that broker and looked for another.  She saw over a dozen brokers.  Few if any sounded honest to me.  Then she hit on a great saleman.  She had no info what his rate of return was or how he would position her to be safe.  He did have a low cost, like .5% of what she had to pay for a year of service.  He first tried to sell her an anuity.  These tend to pay the biggest finders fee to the broker.  My wife believed me when I said she found the biggest shark in the ocean to manage her money.  She escaped that trap but he sold her long term health insurance which she didn't need and probably a buch of bad investemnts so he could make a few hundredf grand on ther in his first month. 

 

This is all true and the realiity that unless you know what you are doing you will wind up with a pig in a poke for all your hard earned money.  I would say ignorance and being too trustful is the kiss of death for finance. I susplect most of my friends have bad investments.  Most of them have only bonds even though they have a terrible return on investment and are a poor investment.  They are not very safe either.  This century they have learned how to make a bad bond look OK.  Then you sell it rewarding the brogetrage firmaand the broker for getting you to buy thier crap bonds.  Does that sound familiar?  They are likely going to lose their life savings when the bond market goes bust like in did in 2007. You are better off on a CD or US savings bonds.

 

Too many persons love to live beyond their means and that is a real problem.  .

 

Hopefully I may have made a few of you more cautious.