Great Second Careers: Explore How 22 People Over 50 Found Happiness and Success. Read More

Reply
Valued Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

260 Views
Message 11 of 27

GailL1 wrote:

Olderscout66,

i don't believe those development subsidies went to the end-user - they went to the industry.  In fact we are still subsidizing things in this manner which IMO should be pretty much standing on their own - rapid transit, Amtrax - the list goes on.

 

Tax advantage subsidies given to the end user are really just discounts for the product and they are hard to stop EVER especially if the product in question does not become competitive in stand alone pricing ( market pricing ) where the product is desired by those of all income levels.  You can apply that same thing to things like solar panels - still highly subsidized by state tax credits in some states.

 

I ask this question to especially you - why should government subsidize any item at the end-user level especially when the price of such items are cost prohibitive to many people - with or without the tax advantage subsidiary?

 

 

 

 


Gail, I would agree with you except for the fact that we are already "subsidizing" internal combustion engines and high pollution vehicles by not charging them the future costs that their vehicles are generating for clean up and mitigation.  If somebody can figure out what these costs will be and figure out how to charge it, whether at the point of sale or at the pump, then I would agree with your point.  But, right now, the cost of an internal combustion vehicle is artificially low.

Report Inappropriate Content
Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

249 Views
Message 12 of 27

Olderscout66,

i don't believe those development subsidies went to the end-user - they went to the industry.  In fact we are still subsidizing things in this manner which IMO should be pretty much standing on their own - rapid transit, Amtrax - the list goes on.

 

Tax advantage subsidies given to the end user are really just discounts for the product and they are hard to stop EVER especially if the product in question does not become competitive in stand alone pricing ( market pricing ) where the product is desired by those of all income levels.  You can apply that same thing to things like solar panels - still highly subsidized by state tax credits in some states.

 

I ask this question to especially you - why should government subsidize any item at the end-user level especially when the price of such items are cost prohibitive to many people - with or without the tax advantage subsidiary?

 

 

 

 

Report Inappropriate Content
Valued Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

250 Views
Message 13 of 27

Gail - You might be right, but we would not have had a railroad system without HUGE government subsidities and without the Government investment in the InterState, our auto industry would've stopped growing around 1954.

 

So the question is, do we want to build cars in America, or become a colony exporting our taconite and scrap iron and importing everything else from "The Mother (Russia?) Country"

 

The EU has committed to banning the sale of fossile fuel vehicles in 2040 or sooner. The European "branch" of Ford has 7.4% of the EU market, Fiat/Chrysler has 7.1% and Opel/GM has 6.3%. How will the EU react if the USA makes no effort to developing efficient and affordable electric vehicles? Could they go so far as to "nationalize" the US share of those companies to prevent profits derived from the subsidities given by EU countries from flowing back to America that contributed nothing?

 

No new technology has every made it to market WITHOUT government support and neither will the electric cars. We can either find the money to stay in the game, or become a defacto colony of countries that DID make the investments.

Report Inappropriate Content
Valued Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

249 Views
Message 14 of 27

Currently, I don't think that EV sales could survive without subsidies but on the other hand some consider these subsidies just welfare for the rich or even upper middle.

 

Bloomberg 06/02/2017 - Denmark is Killing Tesla (and other Electric Cars)

 

The article shows where subsidies are given and what happen when they are removed (almost immediately).

 

How much incentive (subsidies) should be given to create this so-called mandate?

 

 

Report Inappropriate Content
Valued Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

243 Views
Message 15 of 27

retiredtraveler wrote:

GailL1 wrote:

"....How much should the government (federal and state) subsidize the purchase of EVs ?

Got your on order already???...".

 

Ya know. Even though I'm a pretty hard-core environmentalist, I'm not sure we should be subsidizing EV's. I have been driving a hybrid for 4 years now, and I still think that is the best way to go initially, without help from the feds. I always envisioned that hybrids would be the norm, consumers would embrace them, especially as they cost less, with only a small percentage of total electric cars until the battery technology improved.

   Apparently, I'm in the minority on that.


 


All aspects of that makes sense. Well said.

Report Inappropriate Content
Trusted Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

274 Views
Message 16 of 27

GailL1 wrote:

"....How much should the government (federal and state) subsidize the purchase of EVs ?

Got your on order already???...".

 

Ya know. Even though I'm a pretty hard-core environmentalist, I'm not sure we should be subsidizing EV's. I have been driving a hybrid for 4 years now, and I still think that is the best way to go initially, without help from the feds. I always envisioned that hybrids would be the norm, consumers would embrace them, especially as they cost less, with only a small percentage of total electric cars until the battery technology improved.

   Apparently, I'm in the minority on that.


 


Just think. The world was built by the lowest bidder.
Report Inappropriate Content
Valued Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

272 Views
Message 17 of 27

How much should the government (federal and state) subsidize the purchase of EVs ?

Got your on order already???

 

Report Inappropriate Content
Valued Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

281 Views
Message 18 of 27

I'm all for electric cars for those who want them. I finally realized a long-time desire, I live in a community where my second car is a golf cart (electric). However - - - 

 

Reminder:   cars of today have made great improvements in fuel conservation, thanks to President Obama and of course the GOP want to gut those improvements, but most consumers care about fuel mileage and eliminating that  improvement may decrease sales.

 

What are the improvements that the consumers  wants but the GOP wants to gut? It seems to me that if the consumer wants it, the manufacturer will produce it and I don't think the government is going to stop it.

Report Inappropriate Content
Respected Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

287 Views
Message 19 of 27

afisher wrote:

    states like TX refuse / foot drag to build out, so that travelling from outside the State into TX remains problematic.

 

    


Of course Texas would be more prone towards petroleum based fuels since that is a primary part of the economy here.  Another factor might be the range of electric vehicles when the distances between major cities is so extensive.  We have owned vehicles that are so economic on gas use that we can fill up here within the Houston area and travel to Dallas on that tank of gas and still not be empty.

 

From what I recall the optimum distance for a battery operated vehicle is about 215 miles before needing a full charge.  Could one imagine making a 300 mile trip and having to stop at a recharging station for a length of time? 

Report Inappropriate Content
Valued Social Butterfly

Re: electric car mandate

282 Views
Message 20 of 27

   The nonsense of talking about generic 'auto sales" is pretty preposterous, because it is just a number and some here are ignoring that the sales are predominantly  small trucks are being purchased.  

 

    Reminder:   cars of today have made great improvements in fuel conservation, thanks to President Obama and of course the GOP want to gut those improvements, but most consumers care about fuel mileage and eliminating that  improvement may decrease sales.   Auto companies would then have to reconfigure fuel systems to make them less efficient, but only in the US....someone want to argue that makes sense?  

 

    CA is the State with most Electric, in large part because they have built out the infrastructure to have plug in sites.   Meanwhile idiot states like TX refuse / foot drag to build out, so that travelling from outside the State into TX remains problematic.

 

     Me, since retiring, I have learned to use the City Public Transportation system.    It is really inexpensive for Senior (max round trip is $1.35, but a trip to go to City Council meeting is $0.50) and pretty convenient, especially when travelling to City Center, where traffic is terrible and parking is exceedingly expensive ($10-15).    Travel time may be a bit longer  than traveling by car, but then I take a book to read.     Fortunately, we just elected a new City Council and Mayor who are advocates of improving public transportation, not decimating the process.   And all busses are being converted / updated to LNG fuel.       

Report Inappropriate Content