The House Bill Would Mean a Tax Hike for Millions of Seniors. Learn More

Reply
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,060
Registered: ‎06-07-2016

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

Message 31 of 44 (149 Views)
I live in a republican dominated county. Until recently democrats didn't even offer candidates for local elections.... until outside money came in from developers. The county I live in is a low taxed county. We generally have excellent county supplied services. We have strict building codes and strict development rules. It's a pay as you go, or build, or what ever. We do not provide corporate welfare as a rule.

The schools in the county I live in are all A rated... not some, all of them... even in the very rural agricultural areas dominated by immigrants (mostly Guatemalans and Mexicans).

Seems to me we're doing something right, in spite of being a low tax county. Out tax money doesn't get people involved, that comes from within.


Hate is not a Christian virtue, neither is liberal sanctimony
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 11,063
Registered: ‎06-07-2010

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

Message 32 of 44 (149 Views)

umbarch64 wrote:

NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Richva wrote:

First of all, most roads/bridges belong to the respective states/counties and NOT the Federal Government.

 

 

Accurate in part.  Misleading in part.  Infrastructure of this sort is a vital part of the overall  National infrastructure which allows the Nation to function as a whole.  The Federal Tax Base actually funds many of them when you chase down the source of that funding.  IF the Individual States do not manage those funds so as to implement their responsibility as part of the Union, the function is lost.  Blaming the States for a problem, then insisting they have a Constitutional Right to be either corrupt or incompetent is pretty gratuitous... I'd say. 

 

It may be justified, though.  Look directly at the political faction directly responsible for the condition...there is one.  While it is clear that the buck stops with both Organized Political Parties, the more culpable for this particular 'SIN' is the so-called 'conservatives' a.k.a. the Radical Religious Republican Right.  That is entirely accurate.

 

Many states have chosen to put their state gasoline tax into their general fund and then waste the general funds so there is nothing left for roads. This can be easily fixed by NOT having any funds go into the general fund and return the gasoline tax to dedicated infrastructure repair.

 

See above.  That may be true...at least in part.  Sooooo....who did that?

 

Giving a tax cut which will stimulate the economy, create new jobs, and generate new taxes (hopefully) will make up the $1.7 trillion dollar cost

 

That is hope misplaced.  Evidence [actual] does not support that presumption.  This didn't work under Reagan, it won't now.  The revenue you presume from that stimulated economy will end up in the pockets of the already wealthy, never to be seen again..so-called 'conservatives' will make sure of that.

 

and the best thing about it is, it is OUR money in the first place and NOT the governments.

 

It is NOT 'our' money.  Money is a medium of exchange.  For the Working Man or Woman, it represents a substantial portion of life spent to acquire it.  Once spent it cannot be recovered or replaced. For them, gone is gone.  What they have done is make a voluntary disbursement of money OR life in expectation of some benefit in return.  A commodity given in trust.  Capricious, corrupt and callous mis-appropriation of money given in trust violates that trust.  It disposes of someone's life without direct consent to do so.

 

The Preamble to OUR Constitution says it best...I'm not sure you really do understand it.

 

Conservatives understand this.

 

Real 'Conservatives, Liberals, and those who proclaim themselves Independent of alliances understand that money...and life...is a commodity given in trust.  That IS how Government IS supported.  From your posts, I cannot see where you understand any part of that. 

 

Furthermore,  I don't think any authority appointed you to speak for 'Conservatives'...real ones.

 

Ah, well....


 


When you make a comment like "it is NOT our money", I understand where exactly you are coming from. My money isn't yours, it's NOT someone elses, it's mine. I'm choosing to NOT give it to liberal causes, I'm not volunteering my money to the government, and I'm NOT supporting any thoughtless ideas on wasting money. Do you have that straight yet? I hope you catch on that I 100% disagree that it is NOT our money.

 

 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 11,063
Registered: ‎06-07-2010

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

Message 33 of 44 (151 Views)

MIseker wrote:

NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Richva wrote:

Our roads have so many potholes they are destroying our cars. Our airports have no place for GPS technology and air traffic controllers depend on corkboards to track planes. Our payment systems are far behind any other developed country and many of the undeveloped ones. Our high school chemistry labs do not have working ventilation systems. Our government is about to raise the defict by $1.7 Trillion dollars for no good reason other than bread and circuses.

 

If you really want to claim you are patriotic or want to MAGA, you need to work for it, you need to pay for it.  Liberals understand this.


First of all, most roads/bridges belong to the respective states/counties and NOT the Federal Government. Many states have chosen to put their state gasoline tax into their general fund and then waste the general funds so there is nothing left for roads. This can be easily fixed by NOT having any funds go into the general fund and return the gasoline tax to dedicated infrastructure repair.

 

Giving a tax cut which will stimulate the economy, create new jobs, and generate new taxes (hopefully) will make up the $1.7 trillion dollar cost and the best thing about it is, it is OUR money in the first place and NOT the governments.

 

Conservatives understand this.


Gas tax to General fund happens in Republican led states like mine and Kansas because of excessive corporate tax cuts.. that have done nothing but enrich cronies thru privatization. 

 

As to that tax cut tricling down..we have had growing debt since Reagan.

 

COnservatives dont understand that


Do some checking and you will find many dark blue states that have the gas tax going into the general fund and then - poof - the money's gone!

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 11,063
Registered: ‎06-07-2010

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

Message 34 of 44 (140 Views)

ChasKy53 wrote:

NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Richva wrote:

Our roads have so many potholes they are destroying our cars. Our airports have no place for GPS technology and air traffic controllers depend on corkboards to track planes. Our payment systems are far behind any other developed country and many of the undeveloped ones. Our high school chemistry labs do not have working ventilation systems. Our government is about to raise the defict by $1.7 Trillion dollars for no good reason other than bread and circuses.

 

If you really want to claim you are patriotic or want to MAGA, you need to work for it, you need to pay for it.  Liberals understand this.


First of all, most roads/bridges belong to the respective states/counties and NOT the Federal Government. Many states have chosen to put their state gasoline tax into their general fund and then waste the general funds so there is nothing left for roads. This can be easily fixed by NOT having any funds go into the general fund and return the gasoline tax to dedicated infrastructure repair.

 

Giving a tax cut which will stimulate the economy, create new jobs, and generate new taxes (hopefully) will make up the $1.7 trillion dollar cost and the best thing about it is, it is OUR money in the first place and NOT the governments.

 

Conservatives understand this.


Too bad the Republicans can't come up with a tax plan that will cut the deficit and stimulate the economy. Too bad the Republicans, who have had the majority in Congress for 20 of the last 24 years have not had tax plans in place that would allow funding jobs programs to  modernize our infrastructure like so many other countries have. Too bad so-called conservative voters don't understand this.


The plan was to make a small sacrifice in deficit to reduce the overall debt. I wouldn't expect a liberal to understand this mechanism, but that is the theory versus Obama's strategy - to increase the debt 100% (by $10 TRILLION dollars) over eight years.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,638
Registered: ‎11-09-2011

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

Message 35 of 44 (134 Views)

Tax cuts ONLY stimulate the economy when the people getting the reduction in taxes will SPEND the extra income on ADDITIONAL CONSUMPTION. Does not work when the recepient of the cut has to use to money to pay for services that were cut to avoid increasing the deficit caused by the tax cut.

 

Tax cuts for the top 1% have NEVER produced increased consumption, only redistributed wealth from the middle to the very top. If you disagree, please submit an example of when cutting tax for the top 1% produced increased economic activity.

 

Increased Government spending on infrastructure ALWAYS stimulates the economy. Why" BECAUSE NO 1%ers are hired with the additional expenditures. Instead Government provides jobs for middle class WORKERS to build roads and bridges and dams, to staff clinics, improve harbors and airports, build and staff schools or increase staffing at existing schools and increase police and fire protection by putting more cops and firefighters on the payroll. All those people increase their CONSUMPTION because they all have "unmet demand" in their lives. the increased CONSUPMTION causes suppliers to increase production, which increases wages for the producers who also spend more on CONSUMPTION, and the economy grows.

 

None of that happens when you give 1%ers more money. They already live like royality using 30% of their incomes, so the "tax windfall" simply increases their investments in sterile (existing) assets that produce NO economic growth.

 

Until a tax rate actually reduces the lifestyle of the 1%, why should their taxes not be increased so everybody else's can be held constant and the additional revenue rebuild our infrastructure?  That is EXACTLY how our grandparents built the greatest infrastructure in the World when they hiked the TMR from 25% to 65% and then to 94% to pay for victory over the German Nazis, Italian Fascists and Japanese Imperialists.

 

While the TMR was 91%, every year the rich got richer, but the gap between rich and poor shrank because the poor and middle were getting richer faster. There were no "re-education camps" to teach the poor how to become less poor, no collectivization of agriculture and definatily no Government control of any industries, and yet our standard of living was the envy of the World, our schools were second to none and our general level of satisfaction was at record highs as was our trust in Government.

 

The wheels came off when LBJ lied us into Vietnam, and slashed taxes to win support for his Asian Misadventure. Then the rot began to set in with Nixon ending the draft (no longer a shared experience for virtually all American males) and Watergate.

 

If we're really serious about healing the rift in our body politic, we need to get back to what worked. First a sense of COMMUNITY, starting with excellent public schools and public services we can all enjoy "free". Then a shared sense of duty to Country with a Univesal Draft for the military AND public service maintaining our public spaces, supporting teachers with aids and tutors, disaster relief, providing after school and summer programs for kids - all of which is easily funded using the tax structure of 1980 and eliminating the special treatment of all investment income.

 

Why is it so hard for people to realize we did all this before and NOBODY suffered?

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,645
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

Message 36 of 44 (140 Views)

NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Richva wrote:

First of all, most roads/bridges belong to the respective states/counties and NOT the Federal Government.

 

 

Accurate in part.  Misleading in part.  Infrastructure of this sort is a vital part of the overall  National infrastructure which allows the Nation to function as a whole.  The Federal Tax Base actually funds many of them when you chase down the source of that funding.  IF the Individual States do not manage those funds so as to implement their responsibility as part of the Union, the function is lost.  Blaming the States for a problem, then insisting they have a Constitutional Right to be either corrupt or incompetent is pretty gratuitous... I'd say. 

 

It may be justified, though.  Look directly at the political faction directly responsible for the condition...there is one.  While it is clear that the buck stops with both Organized Political Parties, the more culpable for this particular 'SIN' is the so-called 'conservatives' a.k.a. the Radical Religious Republican Right.  That is entirely accurate.

 

Many states have chosen to put their state gasoline tax into their general fund and then waste the general funds so there is nothing left for roads. This can be easily fixed by NOT having any funds go into the general fund and return the gasoline tax to dedicated infrastructure repair.

 

See above.  That may be true...at least in part.  Sooooo....who did that?

 

Giving a tax cut which will stimulate the economy, create new jobs, and generate new taxes (hopefully) will make up the $1.7 trillion dollar cost

 

That is hope misplaced.  Evidence [actual] does not support that presumption.  This didn't work under Reagan, it won't now.  The revenue you presume from that stimulated economy will end up in the pockets of the already wealthy, never to be seen again..so-called 'conservatives' will make sure of that.

 

and the best thing about it is, it is OUR money in the first place and NOT the governments.

 

It is NOT 'our' money.  Money is a medium of exchange.  For the Working Man or Woman, it represents a substantial portion of life spent to acquire it.  Once spent it cannot be recovered or replaced. For them, gone is gone.  What they have done is make a voluntary disbursement of money OR life in expectation of some benefit in return.  A commodity given in trust.  Capricious, corrupt and callous mis-appropriation of money given in trust violates that trust.  It disposes of someone's life without direct consent to do so.

 

The Preamble to OUR Constitution says it best...I'm not sure you really do understand it.

 

Conservatives understand this.

 

Real 'Conservatives, Liberals, and those who proclaim themselves Independent of alliances understand that money...and life...is a commodity given in trust.  That IS how Government IS supported.  From your posts, I cannot see where you understand any part of that. 

 

Furthermore,  I don't think any authority appointed you to speak for 'Conservatives'...real ones.

 

Ah, well....


 

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 12,554
Registered: ‎02-28-2008

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

Message 37 of 44 (108 Views)

Fishslayer777 wrote:

Richva wrote:

Our roads have so many potholes they are destroying our cars. Our airports have no place for GPS technology and air traffic controllers depend on corkboards to track planes. Our payment systems are far behind any other developed country and many of the undeveloped ones. Our high school chemistry labs do not have working ventilation systems. Our government is about to raise the defict by $1.7 Trillion dollars for no good reason other than bread and circuses.

 

If you really want to claim you are patriotic or want to MAGA, you need to work for it, you need to pay for it.  Liberals understand this.


My God.... where do you live! must be a liberal state. 

 

Roads are very good in FL, not perfect but good. . Tourists pay for a lot of improvements. We use tolls.

 

My oldest son is a ATC... no, they don't use cork boards.... lol. 

 

High Schools have great labs jointly shared with community colleges and sponsered by local businesses. 

 

Maybe liberals understand it,but don't know how to run things.

 

 

 

 


Republicans offer PHDs in the inability to govern. Gotta give them that credit.  You sound like a typical Republican. If you can get to your store without the wheels being knocked off, all is fine. It does not matter what the next mile up the road is like or what the facts are. 

 

Now the American Society of Civil Engineers give Florida an overall "C" for its infrastructure which, comparably, is not bad. Unless you live in China or some developed country.   Here are their comments about the costs of congress not doing anything 

 

.

But it’s flat out not. Here are some of the things that will happen if Congress simply continues the status quo over the next few years, from ASCE’s economic study on transportation:

  • It will cost each American family’s budget $1,060 every year through at least 2020
  • America will lose more than 876,000 jobs by 2020
  • 234,000 jobs will force workers to take paycuts in 2020
  • S. exports will drop by $28 billion in total by 2020
  • America’s GDP will underperform by $897 billion in total by 2020
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,050
Registered: ‎12-05-2009

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

[ Edited ]
Message 38 of 44 (105 Views)

NOTHAPPENING: 

Giving a tax cut which will stimulate the economy, create new jobs, and generate new taxes (hopefully) will make up the $1.7 trillion dollar cost and the best thing about it is, it is OUR money in the first place and NOT the governments.

 

Conservatives understand this.

 

 

 

This scam didn't work for Reagan (had to raise taxes 11 times) or Bush, (might wanna check out Kansas too), and it won't work now. It's just another scheme being peddled as a middle class tax cut that shovels most of the money to the rich. Must be truly delicious Koolaid.

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 8,174
Registered: ‎11-18-2009

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

Message 39 of 44 (95 Views)

Fishslayer777 wrote:

Richva wrote:

Our roads have so many potholes they are destroying our cars. Our airports have no place for GPS technology and air traffic controllers depend on corkboards to track planes. Our payment systems are far behind any other developed country and many of the undeveloped ones. Our high school chemistry labs do not have working ventilation systems. Our government is about to raise the defict by $1.7 Trillion dollars for no good reason other than bread and circuses.

 

If you really want to claim you are patriotic or want to MAGA, you need to work for it, you need to pay for it.  Liberals understand this.


My God.... where do you live! must be a liberal state. 

 

Roads are very good in FL, not perfect but good. . Tourists pay for a lot of improvements. We use tolls.

 

My oldest son is a ATC... no, they don't use cork boards.... lol. 

 

High Schools have great labs jointly shared with community colleges and sponsered by local businesses. 

 

Maybe liberals understand it,but don't know how to run things.

 

 

 

 


google freeze thaw cycle impact on roads.

So it begins.
Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 8,174
Registered: ‎11-18-2009

Re: We need a massive upgrade of our infrastructure

Message 40 of 44 (95 Views)

NOTHAPPENING wrote:

Richva wrote:

Our roads have so many potholes they are destroying our cars. Our airports have no place for GPS technology and air traffic controllers depend on corkboards to track planes. Our payment systems are far behind any other developed country and many of the undeveloped ones. Our high school chemistry labs do not have working ventilation systems. Our government is about to raise the defict by $1.7 Trillion dollars for no good reason other than bread and circuses.

 

If you really want to claim you are patriotic or want to MAGA, you need to work for it, you need to pay for it.  Liberals understand this.


First of all, most roads/bridges belong to the respective states/counties and NOT the Federal Government. Many states have chosen to put their state gasoline tax into their general fund and then waste the general funds so there is nothing left for roads. This can be easily fixed by NOT having any funds go into the general fund and return the gasoline tax to dedicated infrastructure repair.

 

Giving a tax cut which will stimulate the economy, create new jobs, and generate new taxes (hopefully) will make up the $1.7 trillion dollar cost and the best thing about it is, it is OUR money in the first place and NOT the governments.

 

Conservatives understand this.


Gas tax to General fund happens in Republican led states like mine and Kansas because of excessive corporate tax cuts.. that have done nothing but enrich cronies thru privatization. 

 

As to that tax cut tricling down..we have had growing debt since Reagan.

 

COnservatives dont understand that

So it begins.