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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 10,174
Registered: ‎06-07-2010

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 31 of 89 (72 Views)

pc6063 wrote:

 Hillary is no longer a player-that is over. 


Hillary IS still a player since she was NOT charged with any felonies (which she HAS committed) YET yet you whine on about Trump who has NOT committed any felonies.

 

Hillary was charged with protecting classified documents and knowingly kept an unsecured  server in her home containing those classified documents.  You and the radical left may give her a pass, but America will not forget!

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 21,065
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 32 of 89 (73 Views)

rk9152 wrote:


 Two thoughts:

1) Conservatives are not monolithic like those of the left who line up and follow the Party line without question;
Quite precious. so, only the Democrats are the ones that follow up the line of the Party? really, are you sure that conservatives don't suffer the same sin?

2) A "radical" defined as what? A radical is anyone that cannot see the two sides of a coin.

3) "authority belongs to the people" - and the people spoke last November, let it go.
Yes,, the people did speak last November and Trump was elected  President. so, what does that has to do with the present situation? Or did you expect for the citizens of this country to keep quiet under the circumstances? Don't you believe in the Rule of Law and the Constitution? Well, right now, we are all seeing it  at work. so what is your problem?


  

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 3,042
Registered: ‎01-24-2014

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 33 of 89 (72 Views)

RK-- Hillary was brought into this discussion as a diversionary tactic!  This thread is about trump and his negative impact on the financial institutes of this country.

 

  You, I see, intentionally divert, as did the poster to whom I addressed my remarks.  It's a tactic taught on FOX and seen in Breitbart.

 

Try to keep abreast of the events.  Hillary is no longer a player-that is over.  It's trump who is the focus of attention now, and for all the wrong reasons.

 

Those who defend trump or try to divert attention away from the atrocities which he has perpetrated on this country, not only demean this country, but themselves.

 


politics, cats, kids, and dogs!!
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,146
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 34 of 89 (69 Views)

umbarch64 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

CriticalThinking wrote:

"DOJ like other federal agencies had become so politicized under the Obama Administration that a certain amount of house cleaning is called for. "

 

The above statement is completely FALSE. The FBI is made up of Professionals who do not bow to politics. In addition, I read several articles which praised President Obama for NOT interfering with the FBI.


False it is....That does not diminish the intended effect to undermine the very foundations of the institutions that keep this Nation alive.  Voter percentages favor the extremes, right or left.  The system is itself vulnerable to abuse by those extremists.  We...the sane ones...must somehow prevent the radicals from imposing their agenda on ALL the rest.  I know you know that. 

 

There is a whole pot of those who cannot or will not see it that way. They ARE in the minority.... by quite a bit.  However, the majority is fractured.  They can't seem to get its * * * * together enough to fix what needs fixing.  'They' are still 'sitting on their hands' waiting for the 'good fairy' to do their work for them.  'They' have abdicated their responsiblility at the polls and now it really IS the career professionals who 'hold the line' against the extremists until 'they' come to their senses.  2018 is just down the road a piece.  It will either happen then or not at all.  


False it isn't.....true it is. I have stated this before, ignoring the truth of it will not diminish it's veracity. The politicization of the various federal agencies under Obama does not refer to the individual hard working career employees for the most part. it refers to the political appointees and their senior leadership who can use the work of the professionals in a partisan way. 

 

I do understand your point and give it to you, BUT not to the extent you claim nor with exclusive ownership vested in the Democratic Party as you imply.  It is only partially true. You didn't bother to clarify so that it would be completely true.  I consider that omission deliberate and hypocritical.   Advocacy of that sort diminishes credibility so that it eventually disappears, just like the grin on the face of the Cheshire Cat.

 

Example - the "tarmac summit".

Example - Lois Lerner.

 

Ditto.  You present motive and fault as having been established.  It is not.

 


 


Well, motive seems pretty clear in those instances of the corruption of the process by the previous Administration. And "fault" - what do you mean by that?

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,146
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 35 of 89 (47 Views)

umbarch64 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

 

That makes total sense to the 'dear leader' and every one of his fool/tools.  Not so much to anyone else.  There is a reason for it all.  Wanna talk plots?  There it is!


The aspects of that "despot" stuff sounds very much like the actions of the radical left. The only difference is that instead of an individual it is a communal effort - and such communal efforts usually end up with a "Dear Leader" coming forward after the revolution.

 

Yep, there it is.


Nahhh....Right/Left is irrelevant and you know it.  Using terms like 'actions of the radical left' and 'communal effort' is calculated to deflect from the radical nature of the extreme right.  'Conseratives' they are not....and neither are you.  I am absolutely not interested in serving as a platform for any propagandist...right or left. Doesn't much matter to me where you fit on that teeter-totter..it's all propaganda.  Dissembling to advocate....truth has no place in that.


I disagree. When you start looking at that "dear leader' jazz, you are looking at governments formed along "communal" lines.

 

Just because you or anyone else declares a 'dear leader' to be a despot on the left does not make it so.  A despot is a despot.  Many of them get their 'start' in populism.  That populism could start one way and end in an authoritarian dictatorship of an entirely different flavor.  Why don't you can the nonsense and market it elsewhere?  You have to know it won't 'play in Peoria'.

 

Remember, our nation was formed with an intentionally diminished central government as far as internal affairs were concerned,

 

Our 'Founding Fathers had markedly different opinions about a lot of things.  The Constitution they came up with is a compromise of sorts, but it does vest a certain amount of power in the 'central government'.  They are enumerated.  The balance is either retained by the people or the States 'united under that very same Constitution'.  A war was fought about that partly over the ability of the States to defy the Federal Union.  The rebels lost.  So did you. You seem fond of the phrase 'Get over it'....you would do well to take your own advice.

 

 

Our Founding Fathers treasured individual rights, not collective rights.

 

The Constitution set forth a bunch of rights.  Among them were individual rights AND collective rights.  It is highly presumptuous of you to tell me what the Founding Fathers valued, treasured or hated....dare I say, collectively?  You obviously have an opinion of what other people feel or think...but that's all it is.  When deliberately represented as fact, it is also a lie.

 

So there is a left/right divide along ideological lines in our nation today - one calls for individual rights and the other for collective rights. 

 

There is indeed a divide.  Whether it is left/right begs the question which one  does authoritarianism favor?  As far as the Constitution is concerned, that has been established for some time even though it required amendments to do it.  The process of amendment to the Constitution is likewise established and, in the end, authority belongs to the People.  Like it or not.

 

As an aside - I am not Conservative? Why is that??

 

I gave you a recognized authority which defines conservative and radical.  I even gave you salient portions to help you along.  You, sir, are a radical.


 Two thoughts:

1) Conservatives are not monolithic like those of the left who line up and follow the Party line without question;

2) A "radical" defined as what?

3) "authority belongs to the people" - and the people spoke last November, let it go.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,146
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 36 of 89 (42 Views)

pc6063 wrote:

Crit--he is a Republican and that he did run under the Republican Party ticket. But you are correct, Trump is in this for only one person, himself.

 Today CNN is reporting low morale amongst his staff, the whispers of impeachment from both Republican and Democratic senators and congressmen. John McCain has said this White House is very close to Watergate crisis.

 

Hopefully,  this presidential imposter will soon be gone, and all of American can rest easily once again.


You on the left are so blinded by your hatred that you still do not get it. Donald Trump is not an establishment figure and he is non-ideological. That is what got him elected in the first place (well, that and your lousy candidate) and it is the cause for all the enmity from all sides.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,146
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 37 of 89 (42 Views)

pc6063 wrote:

NH--By the time all the Felonies and atrocities that your boy Trump has committed have been investigated,  that statute of limitations will have long past expired. 

Really sad that that's all right wingers have with regard to defending the indefensible  that surrounds the trump administration.

 

Yeah,  I think I'm right, that ship has absolutely sailed.


"Your boy" again....

 

However, if your theory is correct about statutes of limitation then what is the point to all this disruption of the government? It seems to confirm the idea that it is no more than childish tantrums over some not getting their own way in the last election.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 988
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 38 of 89 (54 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

CriticalThinking wrote:

"DOJ like other federal agencies had become so politicized under the Obama Administration that a certain amount of house cleaning is called for. "

 

The above statement is completely FALSE. The FBI is made up of Professionals who do not bow to politics. In addition, I read several articles which praised President Obama for NOT interfering with the FBI.


False it is....That does not diminish the intended effect to undermine the very foundations of the institutions that keep this Nation alive.  Voter percentages favor the extremes, right or left.  The system is itself vulnerable to abuse by those extremists.  We...the sane ones...must somehow prevent the radicals from imposing their agenda on ALL the rest.  I know you know that. 

 

There is a whole pot of those who cannot or will not see it that way. They ARE in the minority.... by quite a bit.  However, the majority is fractured.  They can't seem to get its * * * * together enough to fix what needs fixing.  'They' are still 'sitting on their hands' waiting for the 'good fairy' to do their work for them.  'They' have abdicated their responsiblility at the polls and now it really IS the career professionals who 'hold the line' against the extremists until 'they' come to their senses.  2018 is just down the road a piece.  It will either happen then or not at all.  


False it isn't.....true it is. I have stated this before, ignoring the truth of it will not diminish it's veracity. The politicization of the various federal agencies under Obama does not refer to the individual hard working career employees for the most part. it refers to the political appointees and their senior leadership who can use the work of the professionals in a partisan way. 

 

I do understand your point and give it to you, BUT not to the extent you claim nor with exclusive ownership vested in the Democratic Party as you imply.  It is only partially true. You didn't bother to clarify so that it would be completely true.  I consider that omission deliberate and hypocritical.   Advocacy of that sort diminishes credibility so that it eventually disappears, just like the grin on the face of the Cheshire Cat.

 

Example - the "tarmac summit".

Example - Lois Lerner.

 

Ditto.  You present motive and fault as having been established.  It is not.

 


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 988
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 39 of 89 (57 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

 

That makes total sense to the 'dear leader' and every one of his fool/tools.  Not so much to anyone else.  There is a reason for it all.  Wanna talk plots?  There it is!


The aspects of that "despot" stuff sounds very much like the actions of the radical left. The only difference is that instead of an individual it is a communal effort - and such communal efforts usually end up with a "Dear Leader" coming forward after the revolution.

 

Yep, there it is.


Nahhh....Right/Left is irrelevant and you know it.  Using terms like 'actions of the radical left' and 'communal effort' is calculated to deflect from the radical nature of the extreme right.  'Conseratives' they are not....and neither are you.  I am absolutely not interested in serving as a platform for any propagandist...right or left. Doesn't much matter to me where you fit on that teeter-totter..it's all propaganda.  Dissembling to advocate....truth has no place in that.


I disagree. When you start looking at that "dear leader' jazz, you are looking at governments formed along "communal" lines.

 

Just because you or anyone else declares a 'dear leader' to be a despot on the left does not make it so.  A despot is a despot.  Many of them get their 'start' in populism.  That populism could start one way and end in an authoritarian dictatorship of an entirely different flavor.  Why don't you can the nonsense and market it elsewhere?  You have to know it won't 'play in Peoria'.

 

Remember, our nation was formed with an intentionally diminished central government as far as internal affairs were concerned,

 

Our 'Founding Fathers had markedly different opinions about a lot of things.  The Constitution they came up with is a compromise of sorts, but it does vest a certain amount of power in the 'central government'.  They are enumerated.  The balance is either retained by the people or the States 'united under that very same Constitution'.  A war was fought about that partly over the ability of the States to defy the Federal Union.  The rebels lost.  So did you. You seem fond of the phrase 'Get over it'....you would do well to take your own advice.

 

 

Our Founding Fathers treasured individual rights, not collective rights.

 

The Constitution set forth a bunch of rights.  Among them were individual rights AND collective rights.  It is highly presumptuous of you to tell me what the Founding Fathers valued, treasured or hated....dare I say, collectively?  You obviously have an opinion of what other people feel or think...but that's all it is.  When deliberately represented as fact, it is also a lie.

 

So there is a left/right divide along ideological lines in our nation today - one calls for individual rights and the other for collective rights. 

 

There is indeed a divide.  Whether it is left/right begs the question which one  does authoritarianism favor?  As far as the Constitution is concerned, that has been established for some time even though it required amendments to do it.  The process of amendment to the Constitution is likewise established and, in the end, authority belongs to the People.  Like it or not.

 

As an aside - I am not Conservative? Why is that??

 

I gave you a recognized authority which defines conservative and radical.  I even gave you salient portions to help you along.  You, sir, are a radical.


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 3,042
Registered: ‎01-24-2014

Re: US Institutions Under Assault From Trump

Message 40 of 89 (61 Views)

Crit--he is a Republican and that he did run under the Republican Party ticket. But you are correct, Trump is in this for only one person, himself.

 Today CNN is reporting low morale amongst his staff, the whispers of impeachment from both Republican and Democratic senators and congressmen. John McCain has said this White House is very close to Watergate crisis.

 

Hopefully,  this presidential imposter will soon be gone, and all of American can rest easily once again.


politics, cats, kids, and dogs!!