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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,538
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 61 of 388 (49 Views)

rk9152 wrote:


That has nothing to do with the words you were theoretically responding to. So, again, do you really not see the difference between trust in the individual and placing everything in the hands of a monarchy?


I believe that no progressive would actually believe in putting their trust in a monarchy, unless  of course, you are equating monarchy = Federal government, which is as false as any statement can be. But of course, "what's new" in the minds of the very conservative individuals.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,505
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 62 of 388 (55 Views)

Richva wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Do you really not see the difference between trust in the individual and placing everything in the hands of a monarchy - or are you just playing games?


It would appear we are playing games. No Progressive is a Marxist. They have diametrically opposite viewpoints but the Conservatives keep trying to make the connection. it is almost as if they have no other value to add to the discussion.  Could it be?


That has nothing to do with the words you were theoretically responding to. So, again, do you really not see the difference between trust in the individual and placing everything in the hands of a monarchy?

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,505
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 63 of 388 (52 Views)

alferdpacker wrote:

rker321 wrote:



I heard something that Ryan told and interviewer that really made me extremely angry
Regarding this issue of vouchers and children in charter schools and the fact that now the States will  have the right to reduce any of those funds. When asked what would happen to those children, His answer was that he believed in the generosity of the neighbors and that they would respond to those needs.
How dare he say those words. Charity? now is he trying to dehumanize a portion of the population by robbing them of their dignity as human beings. and have them depend on the charity of their neighbors?

How dare he say anything like that.

 

About par for the course for a lying Trump-supporting scum/politician.


 

 Deep. But does that mean you support the use of school vouchers? Or do you just like typing "scum/politician"?

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,505
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 64 of 388 (52 Views)

rker321 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

 


As I am sure you know, there is an effort to stop poor children from access to them provided by vouchers. It is part of the effort to maintain control of a portion of our population through dependency. The left does not want the poor becoming independent.

 

Just another control tool. To Marx, such control was necessary to prepare the population for that "workers paradise".


I heard something that Ryan told and interviewer that really made me extremely angry
Regarding this issue of vouchers and children in charter schools and the fact that now the States will  have the right to reduce any of those funds. When asked what would happen to those children, His answer was that he believed in the generosity of the neighbors and that they would respond to those needs.
How dare he say those words. Charity? now is he trying to dehumanize a portion of the population by robbing them of their dignity as human beings. and have them depend on the charity of their neighbors?

How dare he say anything like that.


I agree. Vouchers are a great way to get kids with a desire to learn into schools that will teach them. Education is the responsibility of the School District. They should do it using all the tools available.

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 10,549
Registered: ‎02-28-2008

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 65 of 388 (65 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

Do you really not see the difference between trust in the individual and placing everything in the hands of a monarchy - or are you just playing games?


It would appear we are playing games. No Progressive is a Marxist. They have diametrically opposite viewpoints but the Conservatives keep trying to make the connection. it is almost as if they have no other value to add to the discussion.  Could it be?

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 22,156
Registered: ‎07-11-2013

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 66 of 388 (70 Views)

rker321 wrote:



I heard something that Ryan told and interviewer that really made me extremely angry
Regarding this issue of vouchers and children in charter schools and the fact that now the States will  have the right to reduce any of those funds. When asked what would happen to those children, His answer was that he believed in the generosity of the neighbors and that they would respond to those needs.
How dare he say those words. Charity? now is he trying to dehumanize a portion of the population by robbing them of their dignity as human beings. and have them depend on the charity of their neighbors?

How dare he say anything like that.

 

About par for the course for a lying Trump-supporting scum/politician.


 

 

 

He is useless on top of the ground; he ought to be under it, inspiring the cabbages. Puddinhead Wilson, Mark Twain 1894
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,538
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 67 of 388 (77 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

 


As I am sure you know, there is an effort to stop poor children from access to them provided by vouchers. It is part of the effort to maintain control of a portion of our population through dependency. The left does not want the poor becoming independent.

 

Just another control tool. To Marx, such control was necessary to prepare the population for that "workers paradise".


I heard something that Ryan told and interviewer that really made me extremely angry
Regarding this issue of vouchers and children in charter schools and the fact that now the States will  have the right to reduce any of those funds. When asked what would happen to those children, His answer was that he believed in the generosity of the neighbors and that they would respond to those needs.
How dare he say those words. Charity? now is he trying to dehumanize a portion of the population by robbing them of their dignity as human beings. and have them depend on the charity of their neighbors?

How dare he say anything like that.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,505
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 68 of 388 (77 Views)

rker321 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

I don't want to get in between you guys, BUT....what rk said was NOT accurate. The 'wisdom of the Founding Fathers' left us with documents which say why the Founders did what they did, what they intended to put in place of what they got rid of and how that new 'thing' was supposed to work. 

 

The Declaration of Independence came first, the Constituton followed.  The true meaning is set forth in each and every word used in the documents precisely as written. ALL else,....all the pamphlets, papers, treatises, that preceded and followed those memorialized words are irrelevant if, in any way, they contradict those words. 

 

A monarchy, a dictatorship IS "trust' placed in an individual as rk infers is the 'right' thing to do. There is no need to expound further on what rk said.  His own words establish how it is he and his cohorts view what they intend this Nation to be AFTER they are through molding it to their mindset.

 

The Preamble to that thing called the Constitution starts out with the precise phrase "We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the generatl welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. 

 

That's the IDEA....the CONCEPT....the GOAL. It's WE, THE PEOPLE who establish this government.  It is WE, THE PEOPLE that government is to serve, and it is only WE, THE PEOPLE who can say otherwise. There IS no further discussion possible about that. Contest that and we fight.

 

 


There is a distinct difference between putting trust in THE individual and having rule by AN individual. I can't believe that was missed.

 

So, it appears that rk and "his cohorts" are not in error.

 

I have not checked with my cohorts, but I personally can't see anything in the words cited to support, "From each.....to each...." (my point). That actually comes from a different document.


Huh?


See what I was referring to?  and the long road continues.

 


Do you really not see the difference between trust in the individual and placing everything in the hands of a monarchy - or are you just playing games?

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,505
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 69 of 388 (74 Views)

umbarch64 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

I don't want to get in between you guys, BUT....what rk said was NOT accurate. The 'wisdom of the Founding Fathers' left us with documents which say why the Founders did what they did, what they intended to put in place of what they got rid of and how that new 'thing' was supposed to work. 

 

The Declaration of Independence came first, the Constituton followed.  The true meaning is set forth in each and every word used in the documents precisely as written. ALL else,....all the pamphlets, papers, treatises, that preceded and followed those memorialized words are irrelevant if, in any way, they contradict those words. 

 

A monarchy, a dictatorship IS "trust' placed in an individual as rk infers is the 'right' thing to do. There is no need to expound further on what rk said.  His own words establish how it is he and his cohorts view what they intend this Nation to be AFTER they are through molding it to their mindset.

 

The Preamble to that thing called the Constitution starts out with the precise phrase "We, the People of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the generatl welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. 

 

That's the IDEA....the CONCEPT....the GOAL. It's WE, THE PEOPLE who establish this government.  It is WE, THE PEOPLE that government is to serve, and it is only WE, THE PEOPLE who can say otherwise. There IS no further discussion possible about that. Contest that and we fight.

 

 


There is a distinct difference between putting trust in THE individual and having rule by AN individual. I can't believe that was missed.

 

So, it appears that rk and "his cohorts" are not in error.

 

I have not checked with my cohorts, but I personally can't see anything in the words cited to support, "From each.....to each...." (my point). That actually comes from a different document.


Huh?


I posted about putting faith in "the individual". You claimed it meant putting faith in an individual monarch. An oversight I hope.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,505
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 70 of 388 (72 Views)

MIseker wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

As I posted earlier, lengthy chain-letter exchanges get pretty far afield so I said I would post on individual elements of Marxism that have a place in current politics.

 

Marx stated that the goal of getting people ready for the "workers paradise" required that there by strict State control over education. Today, Marxists insist that there be only State schools. They attempt to restrict private schools. They are opposed to anything such as charter schools that might loosen the hold of the State.

 

In our schools students learn dependence on the State resulting in the "snowflake effect". They learn that they must not hear any views beyond the "approved" ones and are encouraged to attack the free speech of any opposing voice. They are provided with "safe spaces" where they will not hear anything other than the "approved" view of issues.

 

In our area, schools are accepting students at six am and keeping them until six pm - providing for all their needs for more hours than the parents teaching them dependence on the State. The concept of educations has expanded well beyond actual education. 

 

Twenty-two (or more) years of such indoctrination sends them into the world with a favorable view of the teachings of Karl Marx with respect to the power of the State.


WHo insists there be no private schools?

 


As I am sure you know, there is an effort to stop poor children from access to them provided by vouchers. It is part of the effort to maintain control of a portion of our population through dependency. The left does not want the poor becoming independent.

 

Just another control tool. To Marx, such control was necessary to prepare the population for that "workers paradise".