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Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,383
Registered: ‎07-11-2013

Re: The Progressive Movement

[ Edited ]
Message 391 of 396 (345 Views)

 


pc6063 wrote:

nerdymom--

The tenants or Marxism

 

-1.abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes

 

2.  A heavy progressive or graduated income tax

 

3 .Abolition of all rights of inheritance

 

4.  Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels

 

5.  Centralisation of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly

 

6.  centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state

 

7.  Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

 

8.Equal liability of all to work; Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture

 

9.  Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries' gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country

 

10.  Free education for all children in public schools. abolition of children's factory labour in its present form.  Combination of education with industrial production.

 

THIS WAS THE MOST SIMPLISTIC EXPLANATION I COULD FIND.  IT IS A WORD BLOG--

(RAJATGHOSH11'SWEBLOG)

 

When I  taught, I  broke Marxism down into two parts in order to introduce Animal Farm, which ultimately ends with the leaders taking over everything at the expense of the workers--something the tenants from the blog alludes to.

--each to work according to his "or her ability

--each to receive according to his or her needs

 

To call progressives, Neo-Marxists, overlooks much of what Marxism is about, especially when with regard to government take over.

 


The posts we see from our little buddy falsely equating Marxism/Leninism/Communism with Progressivism, Liberalism and the limited beneficial Socialism that's been an essential part of this nation for more than a generation is primarily composed of creating a big straw boogeyman that is supposed to (and fails to) be a scary threat to "The American Way", combined with throwing all manner of conservative lies and myths around hoping some of it will stick somewhere and will get noticed.

 

It's noticed all right - and those who believe it are noticed to be the kind of easily duped gullible fools who voted for a poozzy-grabbing fraud/liar/charlatan.

 

Have pity for Melania - she wakes up with a jerk every morning
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 4,343
Registered: ‎01-24-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 392 of 396 (356 Views)

nerdymom--

The tenants or Marxism

 

-1.abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes

 

2.  A heavy progressive or graduated income tax

 

3 .Abolition of all rights of inheritace

 

4.  Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels

 

5.  Centralisation of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly

 

6.  centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state

 

7.  Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

 

8.Equal liability of all to work; Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture

 

9.  Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries' gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country

 

10.  Free education for all children in public schools. abolition of children's factory labour in its present form.  Combination of education with industrial production.

 

THIS WAS THE MOST SIMPLISTIC EXPLANATION I COULD FIND.  IT IS A WORD BLOG--

(RAJATGHOSH11'SWEBLOG)

 

When I  taught, I  broke Marxism down into two parts in order to introduce Animal Farm, which ultimately ends with the leaders taking over everything at the expense of the workers--something the tenants from the blog alludes to.

--each to work according to his "or her ability

--each to receive according to his or her needs

 

To call progressives, Neo-Marxists, overlooks much of what Marxism is about, expecially when with regard to government take over.

 

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
Super Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,018
Registered: ‎12-31-2016

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 393 of 396 (365 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

I often refer to theProgressive Movement as neo-Marxists. No one seems to have anything deeper to say about that than "Don't call me a Commie" and comparing the word Marxism to the term "GOPerDupes".

 

And yet Marxism is a real political and economic philosophy that has been a major factor in the world for over a century and a half. As such, it deserves deeper thought than it gets in our discussions. Below is an interesting BBC that while somewhat sympathetic to Marx and Marxism, it accurately shows it's flaws.

 

See if you of the left do not see a lot to to agree with in Marxism and if you do not see it as an element of the Progressive movement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LbVYc8oLGg


What do you mean by neo-Marxists, though?  (I don't have time any time soon to watch an hour-long program, I'm afraid).   There is no pure Marxist ideology.  Do you mean what's led to communism?  The way it's been practiced by folks like the USSR and China?  Or do you mean socialism? 

 

My understanding of Marxism is that everything about capitalism is bad, the workers should be in charge of the country (and if they aren't, they will eventually overthrow everything), nothing should be privately owned, and there should be a very equal distribution of wealth.   Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

I don't know any progressives, myself included, who believe any of this.  I do believe completely unfettered capitalism hurts people and hurts them often.  But that doesn't mean capitalism with certain oversight is bad.  In fact, capitalism with governmental regulation is good.   It's a nuanced difference, but it's an absolutely critical one.  

 

I don't believe in 100% equal distribution of wealth.   I don't care if millions of people are wealthier than me.   I "do" care that we ensure adequate standards of housing, education, safety, health, and nutrition for everyone.    

 

Government is part of a system of checks and balances on unfettered capitalism.  And it's a way we as a society organize ourselves to meet societal needs.  Conservatives like government to meet the communal needs of safety.  Military and police and all that.  Liberals add things like food, housing, schooling, and health care.  This does not make liberal/progressive ideas Marxist. 

 

 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 394 of 396 (371 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

I often refer to theProgressive Movement as neo-Marxists. No one seems to have anything deeper to say about that than "Don't call me a Commie" and comparing the word Marxism to the term "GOPerDupes".

 

First sentence:  Indeed you do.  Incorrectly too.  That is a 'false equivalency'. You know it.  Labels, labels, labels...propaganda, propaganda, propaganda.

 

And yet Marxism is a real political and economic philosophy that has been a major factor in the world for over a century and a half. As such, it deserves deeper thought than it gets in our discussions. Below is an interesting BBC that while somewhat sympathetic to Marx and Marxism, it accurately shows it's flaws.

 

I agree.  Marx made an 'economic' argument, tacked on a 'political' method he felt was necessary to bring it about, and sold it.  'the donald' cynically exploited a similar audience to acquire power.  Both are Demagogues.  Neither shrink at violence to accomplish their ends.  Neither let ethical standards stand in the way of acheiving power they need to do that.  

 

Compared to 'the donald', however, Marx was a better ethicist of the two.  Doesn't mean I agree with Marx, you understand?   

 

See if you of the left do not see a lot to to agree with in Marxism and if you do not see it as an element of the Progressive movement.

 

"the left" is a label intended to convey a stereotype, pejorative too.  Of 'the left', Marxist and Progressives, each is a breed apart, sharing some similarities, polar opposites on other issues.

 

Your shot at advancing an argument is better than usual.  Still needs work.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 4,343
Registered: ‎01-24-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 395 of 396 (381 Views)

rk-Isn't it funny, you call Progressives neo-Marxists.  I call them:

 

forward thinkers, people who realize that the world is changing and we, in turn, need to change with it.

 

  I call them people who believe in science and who know that we must do something about global warming, which explains our opposition to coal, and cutting back on regulations with regard to waterways and emissions from all sources.

 

I call them people who, believing in science, know that people are born as homosexuals, and there

are those who were born into the wrong bodies.  Progressives know that it's a matter of brain function, not body.

 

 I call them people who know that industry is not what is used to be and no matter who promises it will return to the ways of yesterday, it won't happen.

 

I call them people who realize that there are people in this world who are under seige and who look to America for help, for, we are the richest nation on earth. 

 

I call them people who have an understanding of those who have, and are, struggling in life, and who, through no fault of their own, need help.

 

I call them people trying to help those who have taken the wrong path in life, and who see a need to educate or rehabilitate as the need may be--rather than turn our collective backs on them.

 

I call them people who think more of their fellow man than their wallets.

 

I call them people who worry about their health care and the health care of the elderly, the young, and the poor.

 

I CALL THEM ME!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,886
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

The Progressive Movement

Message 396 of 396 (401 Views)

I often refer to theProgressive Movement as neo-Marxists. No one seems to have anything deeper to say about that than "Don't call me a Commie" and comparing the word Marxism to the term "GOPerDupes".

 

And yet Marxism is a real political and economic philosophy that has been a major factor in the world for over a century and a half. As such, it deserves deeper thought than it gets in our discussions. Below is an interesting BBC that while somewhat sympathetic to Marx and Marxism, it accurately shows it's flaws.

 

See if you of the left do not see a lot to to agree with in Marxism and if you do not see it as an element of the Progressive movement.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LbVYc8oLGg