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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,560
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 31 of 396 (63 Views)

366 posts and counting of the ones most original posts in the history of this message boark. nothing learned, not one point being made or accepted. and the merry go round goes on.  

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,536
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 32 of 396 (65 Views)

rker321 wrote:

I knew it , I knew it   I knew it. now we are diverging into the public school system and whateve else the posters wants to take this thread.
please, please, when is all of this going to end.?  Look there is a messager that you can start a tete a tete and continue this absurdity. but, why submit the rest of us. to this continuing  nightmare.

Sorry rk, there's not a shred of evidence to support any of your wild assertions, no matter how carefully you cloak them in the fog of oblique argument.
If you really believe on what you have written why oh why continuing with more posts about the same thing?

 

 What is your complaint about mentioning the schools? Had you taken the trouble to familiarize yourself with the topic - the thinking of Marx - you would know that they were a part of his planning and you posts would have some value.

 

"When is it going to end"? Any time you want. There is no requirement that you put your once cent in on every post.

 

"Continuing with more posts about the same thing" - you're right, I am naive. I think that adults will eventually drop the insults and nonsense and think seriously about topics. As I said, I am naive.

 

As previously posted, if you ever decide you would like to engage in a serious discussion on this topic, I will be here. If you have no interest in serious discussion, I will understand your lack of posting.


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,536
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 33 of 396 (66 Views)

Olderscout66 wrote:

O..M...G!! Now we have the totally absurd notion that AMERICAN public schools have been indoctrinating our children in the wonders of Socialism for the past 150 years and THAT's why we want a more equable distribution of the wealth our nation produces each year.

OMG - who said anything about 150 years?? OMG - Who said anything about "wonders"? Our public schools are indoctrinating kids as to (for example) political correctness. They teach kids about racism and sexism, etc.from the perspective of the the radical left.

 

For our RW, Marxism means a desire for better health care, better retirement, better working conditions and better pay (better meaning something approaching what every other modern democracy has for their citizens) and that's all VERY bad, UNLESS those things are provided by a benevolent and caring Corporate State. For Americans to demand our Government make those things available is a Commie plot, and we'll all wind up like the Ruskies, standing in long lines for everything and fearing the Secret Police.

Who said health care was Marxist?? I said control over the healthcare delivery systems is Marxist. I hope the distinction isn't too subtle. And then of course over the edge with Ruskies, Commies, and Secret Police. Try to follow the logic we are talking about Marxism, not the USSR.

 

Sorry rk, there's not a shred of evidence to support any of your wild assertions, no matter how carefully you cloak them in the fog of oblique argument.

 

People voted for Der Trumper The Populist because he promised to bring back a better past when income went up faster for the 99% than the 1%, public education was truely free, our workweeks were getting shorter and benefits lists getting longer, and you could epect to do better than your parents had done.

And, as in all topics, here we are back to "Der Trumper" and the hated 1%ers.

 

NOBODY voted to bring back the jrbush Great Recession, give bigger tax cuts to billionaires and pay for them by cutting services for the 99%, or turning our infrastructure, ro, bridges, national parks, schools, etc over to private enterprise, and they definatily did NOT vote for another War. Many of those Trumpettes are wakaing up to the sad fact this is what Der Trumper had in mind when he said he'd make us great, and not even the Mighty Gerrymander will save the Republican minority vote majorities come 2018.

You would have to ask people why they voted for our President. Your theories about "Der Trumper", "Mighty Gerrymanderer", and "Trumpettes" are your theories and cannot be attributed to the voters.


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,536
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 34 of 396 (66 Views)

rker321 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Again, there has not been any proof that Marxim is similar or equal to Progressivism.  again, do we need to continue to discuss this further?

Nope. There is absolutely no requirement that you post any further unless you have something to contribute.

Don't tell m He ,you finally got it? So are we all now feeling relieved.?

Because there will always be a news response.

I doubt many come here for the "news". Some go to FOX for the news, others go to MSNBC for propaganda.
No, I imagine that posters come to this message board to actually have serious discussions on  a subject. but as expected. more responses  on a  continuously  thread with no ending in sight. Is not what they come here for.

 


If you have any interest in discussing the topic, let me know. I await your pleasure. 


 


 

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 22,168
Registered: ‎07-11-2013

Re: The Progressive Movement

[ Edited ]
Message 35 of 396 (61 Views)

Getting back on topic with a fact-based post is as straightforward and easy as this -

 

The progressive movement has always been based upon ideals and standards dating as far back as the Greek Philosophers.

Those  ideals and standards were saved by having been translated by scribes and philosophers of The Golden Age of Islam, which, incidentally, kick-started the Renaissance, to which it passed on those ideals and standards a number of centuries earlier than would have been possible had it not been for the Golden Age of Islam.

 

Those ideals and standards were added to by the Renaissance, all of which resulted in the Protestant revolution and other sorts of ideas that sometimes led to the often nationwide conclusion that groups of individual men could adequately govern themselves without the supervision of a national religious or political organization that did not take their needs, wishes and desires into account before making decisions, rules and laws.

 

That concept travelled to the new colonies across the Atlantic, where one Roger Williams, due to his beliefs regarding freedom of worship, was forced to flee from the Massachusetts colonies, took shelter with Narragansetts and other Indians, subsequently managed to (GASP) purchase land from the Indians and eventually founded Rhode Island Colony which mandated separation of church and state, and did the unheard-of-thing of allowing people of multiple different religious beliefs and convictions to live together there in harmony - beginning 204 years before Marx and Engles wrote their pamphlets - in England - on the Eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean - over fifty years after the Constitution had been ratified - on the Weatern side of the Atlantic Ocean. 

 

Marx and Engles pamphlets weren't published in the United States in the English language and became available  until 1872, twenty-four years after it's initial writing.

It never managed to be taken particularly seriously in the United States and take hold and foster a revolution like it did during the Russian Revolution forty-five years later in 1917.

 

Progressivism always has been a separate movement that arose in the United States as a consequence of concerns regarding how post Civil War industrialization, urbanisation, and the decline of agriculture as the largest economic driver in the nation was adversely affecting American Citizens. 

 

Marxism and Communism were dabbled with, and thought about, but neither ever became any kind of significant political movement in the United States up to and including the present day.

 

The first Red Scare in the 1920s was a response by those in power and owners of large businesses and industry to the desires of workers to form unions to keep from being cheated and victimized as they had been for multiple generations.  The Red Scare of the Twenties was a calculated and deliberately fabricated scare tactic designed to use fears of a revolution occurring here as it had in Russia as an excuse to attack and destroy attempts to unionize.

 

The lies and fabrications of the first red scare - exactly like the later speech and actions of "tailgunner Joe McCarthy" were mostly without proved substance, and were primarily a deliberate scare tactic with far more hot air in it than substance.

 

It's no coincidence that each scare tactic response occurred after a war where soldiers - after risking their lives -  came back home and saw that things back home weren't as honest and equitable as they should be, and tried to find legal ways to right wrongs and fix inequities...

 

McCarthy's tactic of identifying people as having acquaintances who might have investigated communism out of curiosity, rapidly (and rabidly) turned into tarbrushing thousands as "communist sympathisers" - something that was false at least as often as not...

 

Current allegations that modern progressives have Marxist/Communist tendencies/leanings/beliefs is, of course, a blatant, vile, and despicable lie. 

 

So - would a deplorable tell despicable lies about a political opposite?  Like the looser/quitter Palin might say - "You Betcha!"

 

 

 

KAKISTOCRACY
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,560
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: The Progressive Movement

[ Edited ]
Message 36 of 396 (67 Views)

I knew it , I knew it   I knew it. now we are diverging into the public school system and whateve else the posters wants to take this thread.
please, please, when is all of this going to end.?  Look there is a messager that you can start a tete a tete and continue this absurdity. but, why submit the rest of us. to this continuing  nightmare.

Sorry rk, there's not a shred of evidence to support any of your wild assertions, no matter how carefully you cloak them in the fog of oblique argument.
If you really believe on what you have written why oh why continuing with more posts about the same thing?

 

 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 19,022
Registered: ‎11-09-2011

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 37 of 396 (65 Views)

O..M...G!! Now we have the totally absurd notion that AMERICAN public schools have been indoctrinating our children in the wonders of Socialism for the past 150 years and THAT's why we want a more equable distribution of the wealth our nation produces each year.

 

For our RW, Marxism means a desire for better health care, better retirement, better working conditions and better pay (better meaning something approaching what every other modern democracy has for their citizens) and that's all VERY bad, UNLESS those things are provided by a benevolent and caring Corporate State. For Americans to demand our Government make those things available is a Commie plot, and we'll all wind up like the Ruskies, standing in long lines for everything and fearing the Secret Police.

 

Sorry rk, there's not a shred of evidence to support any of your wild assertions, no matter how carefully you cloak them in the fog of oblique argument.

 

People voted for Der Trumper The Populist because he promised to bring back a better past when income went up faster for the 99% than the 1%, public education was truely free, our workweeks were getting shorter and benefits lists getting longer, and you could epect to do better than your parents had done.

 

NOBODY voted to bring back the jrbush Great Recession, give bigger tax cuts to billionaires and pay for them by cutting services for the 99%, or turning our infrastructure, roads, bridges, national parks, schools, etc over to private enterprise, and they definatily did NOT vote for another War. Many of those Trumpettes are wakaing up to the sad fact this is what Der Trumper had in mind when he said he'd make us great, and not even the Mighty Gerrymander will save the Republican minority vote majorities come 2018.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,560
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 38 of 396 (65 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

Again, there has not been any proof that Marxim is similar or equal to Progressivism.  again, do we need to continue to discuss this further?

Nope. There is absolutely no requirement that you post any further unless you have something to contribute.

Don't tell m He ,you finally got it? So are we all now feeling relieved.?

Because there will always be a news response.

I doubt many come here for the "news". Some go to FOX for the news, others go to MSNBC for propaganda.
No, I imagine that posters come to this message board to actually have serious discussions on  a subject. but as expected. more responses  on a  continuously  thread with no ending in sight. Is not what they come here for.

 


 


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 2,917
Registered: ‎12-17-2010

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 39 of 396 (62 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

Snoopy48 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Snoopy48 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Since the thinking on this subject has sunk to the level of "Rker-The proverbial slamming one's head into a wall repeatedly", it may be time to take a different tack.

 

Thinking of the dreams of Marx and his ways to attain them, is there nothing there that posters can approve of?


So which of Marx' dreams do you approve of and how do you propose to attain them?


Since that indicates absolutely no interest in a discussion of the topic, what is your purpose in posting??


If, as you say, my question "indicates absolutely no interest in a discussion of the topic" why did you ask that question of others? Are we only here to answer your questions in only they way you want them answered?


In the interest of stimulating discussion a little deeper than "Oh how I hate tRump" and the obsession with O'Reilly. As to the elements of Marxism that seem good to me - I have posted that. As to my problems with Marxism - I have posted that.

 

So, if you have any interest deeper than trolling, let's do it.


How does your question stimulate discussion but my identical question indicates trolling? 

 

If you have any interest in a discussion without trolling, just answer your own question.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 23,536
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 40 of 396 (60 Views)

rker321 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Olderscout66 wrote:

 

 

 

I fully agree with your "not everybody" comments. However, the exercise is not wanting anyone to admit anything, however the defensiveness seems to speak volumes.

 

Marx had a political ideology, the Progressive Movement has an ideology. I see a relationship. One to one, exact fit? No, but a similarity.

 

It is necessary to go deeper than "free public education" so see the similarities. You have to go to the use of the schools for indoctrination and the degree to which the schools are used to replace the influence of the parents. You have to go deeper than "progressive taxes" to the concept of the money actually belonging to the government and it determines who gets what.

 

 


And so it continues. now it has developed into  progressive taxes,

Had you taken the trouble to actually learn about the subject before responding you would have known that the progressive income tax always was there.

Public education and heavens knows what else we will have to endure on this topic. again. how much more ther is to say.? How many more responses are elicited in this thread?

Had you taken the trouble to actually read the post you are theoretically responding to before responding you would seen that it is not just the existence of public education.
How necessary are those responses to this thread?  

Very necessary. You keep asking questions. Courtesy demands they be answered.

Again, there has not been any proof that Marxim is similar or equal to Progressivism.  again, do we need to continue to discuss this further?

Nope. There is absolutely no requirement that you post any further unless you have something to contribute.

Because there will always be a news response.

I doubt many come here for the "news". Some go to FOX for the news, others go to MSNBC for propaganda.