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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 22,417
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 21 of 396 (427 Views)

alferdpacker wrote:


Aren't we fortunate to have Alex Jones and all the rest of the the extreme right fringe nutcases selflessly protecting us from the potential dangers of "not thinkng patriotically" and "not thinking conservatively"?

 

 

 Of course we are very lucky to have Mr. Jones being so selfless and for his protection. to all of us.
Remember my words, We will have the government that we deserve. and he is one of them. Unfortunately.


 

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,306
Registered: ‎07-11-2013

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 22 of 396 (428 Views)

pc6063 wrote:

AP-Trump was also assisted by FOXNews, which isn't a news outlet as much as it is a RW propaganda outlet, creating conspiracy theories and issues in order to further it's obvious far flung RW agenda.  

It's numerous hosts-from O'Reilly to Beck have become adept at "creating  truths" and spinning the truth into something unrecognizable as the truth, all swallowed by their listeners. 

O'Reilly was working on this world of fantasy even before FOX, as he worked with whack job Limbaugh. 

Anyway, after years of conspiracy theories, whacked out fantasies, and twisting of truths beyond recognition, the stage was set  for little donnie, who, being good at nothing else but deception, used the model of FOX and Limbaugh and continued to deceive the American people.

Neo-Marxism and its link to Progressivism--non-existent except in the fantasy world of FOXnews, Limbaugh, and of course, we can't forget the equally ridiculous and false utterances of the White Supremest tabloid Breitbart. 


Aren't we fortunate to have Alex Jones and all the rest of the the extreme right fringe nutcases selflessly protecting us from the potential dangers of "not thinkng patriotically" and "not thinking conservatively"?

 

 

 

Have pity for Melania - she wakes up with a jerk every morning
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 22,417
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 23 of 396 (425 Views)

We all tend to forget past history. Remember Beck and his theories.?   they were very similar to  the philosophy of Fox News. 

I rember one comedian, Colbert, actually equating Beck words with a very ancient philosophy followers. in which they could start with a false  statement and then after various  true statements they would make their first statement  a  truthful statment., Can't remember, I believe they were Sophists  and if I remember also they were banned from the Greek Senate because of their interpretation of the truth.
The manipulation of Truth has always existed, but not everyone is quite aware of the harm that they can do

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 4,343
Registered: ‎01-24-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 24 of 396 (426 Views)

AP-Trump was also assisted by FOXNews, which isn't a news outlet as much as it is a RW propaganda outlet, creating conspiracy theories and issues in order to further it's obvious far flung RW agenda.  

It's numerous hosts-from O'Reilly to Beck have become adept at "creating  truths" and spinning the truth into something unrecognizable as the truth, all swallowed by their listeners. 

O'Reilly was working on this world of fantasy even before FOX, as he worked with whack job Limbaugh. 

Anyway, after years of conspiracy theories, whacked out fantasies, and twisting of truths beyond recognition, the stage was set  for little donnie, who, being good at nothing else but deception, used the model of FOX and Limbaugh and continued to deceive the American people.

Neo-Marxism and its link to Progressivism--non-existent except in the fantasy world of FOXnews, Limbaugh, and of course, we can't forget the equally ridiculous and false utterances of the White Supremest tabloid Breitbart. 

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,306
Registered: ‎07-11-2013

Re: The Progressive Movement

[ Edited ]
Message 25 of 396 (430 Views)

rker321 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

rker321 wrote:

As previously posted, if you ever decide you would like to engage in a serious discussion on this topic, I will be here. If you have no interest in serious discussion, I will understand your lack of posting.

 Oh,  I guess I could say the same thing about the posts in this thread. but I am simply doing what it has been done forever, confusing, diverting and getting the merry go round continuing.


Once again, if you have an interest in the topic, I will be glad to discuss it with you. But if you have no interest or knowledge, there is nothing I can do to alleviate your unhappiness.


My unhapiness?  Oh dear,  well  I guess that is you and me. we can answer to each other.forever after.


I wouldn't be too concerned - the OP isn't fact based - there's no proof ot the claim.

Look at the history of the canard.

Joe McCarthy was - in addition to being a liar - an alcoholic and morphine addict.

McCarthy's liar(lawyer) was Roy Cohn, who after his gig with Joe, became a favored lawyer/"fixer" for a number of Mafia Crime Bosses.

Cohn then, as a well known New York "fixer" - helped Trump avert what could have been potential "construction problems" by secretly introducing Trump to various Mafia Bosses, who, for the customary overcharge, would help Trump avert "work stoppages".

Donnie learned to further refine his ability to lie from Cohn, who who though he actually died of AIDS always claimed it was liver cancer - yep a liar till his last breath...

So - now we have the path of the Republican lie - from McCarthy via Cohn to Trump.

Is it any surprise that the OP, like the Trump/Republican lying tradition, incorrectly equates progressivism with Marx?

yep - it's ALL about the last sixty years of extreme right wing lies about everyone who is not sufficiently to the extreme right...

 

 

 

Have pity for Melania - she wakes up with a jerk every morning
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 22,417
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 26 of 396 (433 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

rker321 wrote:

As previously posted, if you ever decide you would like to engage in a serious discussion on this topic, I will be here. If you have no interest in serious discussion, I will understand your lack of posting.

 Oh,  I guess I could say the same thing about the posts in this thread. but I am simply doing what it has been done forever, confusing, diverting and getting the merry go round continuing.


Once again, if you have an interest in the topic, I will be glad to discuss it with you. But if you have no interest or knowledge, there is nothing I can do to alleviate your unhappiness.


My unhapiness?  Oh dear,  well  I guess that is you and me. we can answer to each other.forever after.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,631
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 27 of 396 (426 Views)

rker321 wrote:

As previously posted, if you ever decide you would like to engage in a serious discussion on this topic, I will be here. If you have no interest in serious discussion, I will understand your lack of posting.

 Oh,  I guess I could say the same thing about the posts in this thread. but I am simply doing what it has been done forever, confusing, diverting and getting the merry go round continuing.


Once again, if you have an interest in the topic, I will be glad to discuss it with you. But if you have no interest or knowledge, there is nothing I can do to alleviate your unhappiness.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,631
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 28 of 396 (424 Views)

rker321 wrote:

366 posts and counting of the ones most original posts in the history of this message boark. nothing learned, not one point being made or accepted. and the merry go round goes on.  


If you have no interest in the topic, there is no requirement that you post - on this "boark" or any other.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,631
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 29 of 396 (420 Views)

alferdpacker wrote:

Getting back on topic with a fact-based post is as straightforward and easy as this -

 

The progressive movement has always been based upon ideals and standards dating as far back as the Greek Philosophers.

Those  ideals and standards were saved by having been translated by scribes and philosophers of The Golden Age of Islam, which, incidentally, kick-started the Renaissance, to which it passed on those ideals and standards a number of centuries earlier than would have been possible had it not been for the Golden Age of Islam.

 

Those ideals and standards were added to by the Renaissance, all of which resulted in the Protestant revolution and other sorts of ideas that sometimes led to the often nationwide conclusion that groups of individual men could adequately govern themselves without the supervision of a national religious or political organization that did not take their needs, wishes and desires into account before making decisions, rules and laws.

 

That concept travelled to the new colonies across the Atlantic, where one Roger Williams, due to his beliefs regarding freedom of worship, was forced to flee from the Massachusetts colonies, took shelter with Narragansetts and other Indians, subsequently managed to (GASP) purchase land from the Indians and eventually founded Rhode Island Colony which mandated separation of church and state, and did the unheard-of-thing of allowing people of multiple different religious beliefs and convictions to live together there in harmony - beginning 204 years before Marx and Engles wrote their pamphlets - in England - on the Eastern side of the Atlantic Ocean - over fifty years after the Constitution had been ratified - on the Weatern side of the Atlantic Ocean. 

 

Marx and Engles pamphlets weren't published in the United States in the English language and became available  until 1872, twenty-four years after it's initial writing.

It never managed to be taken particularly seriously in the United States and take hold and foster a revolution like it did during the Russian Revolution forty-five years later in 1917.

 

Progressivism always has been a separate movement that arose in the United States as a consequence of concerns regarding how post Civil War industrialization, urbanisation, and the decline of agriculture as the largest economic driver in the nation was adversely affecting American Citizens. 

 

Marxism and Communism were dabbled with, and thought about, but neither ever became any kind of significant political movement in the United States up to and including the present day.

 

The first Red Scare in the 1920s was a response by those in power and owners of large businesses and industry to the desires of workers to form unions to keep from being cheated and victimized as they had been for multiple generations.  The Red Scare of the Twenties was a calculated and deliberately fabricated scare tactic designed to use fears of a revolution occurring here as it had in Russia as an excuse to attack and destroy attempts to unionize.

 

The lies and fabrications of the first red scare - exactly like the later speech and actions of "tailgunner Joe McCarthy" were mostly without proved substance, and were primarily a deliberate scare tactic with far more hot air in it than substance.

 

It's no coincidence that each scare tactic response occurred after a war where soldiers - after risking their lives -  came back home and saw that things back home weren't as honest and equitable as they should be, and tried to find legal ways to right wrongs and fix inequities...

 

McCarthy's tactic of identifying people as having acquaintances who might have investigated communism out of curiosity, rapidly (and rabidly) turned into tarbrushing thousands as "communist sympathisers" - something that was false at least as often as not...

 

Current allegations that modern progressives have Marxist/Communist tendencies/leanings/beliefs is, of course, a blatant, vile, and despicable lie. 

 

So - would a deplorable tell despicable lies about a political opposite?  Like the looser/quitter Palin might say - "You Betcha!"

 

Yes, of course, the ideals expressed by Greeks, Islam, the Renaissance, the Protestant revolution, Roger Williams, GASP, and then - Marx wrote his book. It has to be understood that ideas are usually not "new". Rather there are realignments and redefinitions. Marx merely codified thinking already out there

 

Then the issue gets clouded (again) with McCarthyism which did not deal with the thinking of Marx and the Progressive Movement. Rather it dealt with our opponents in the Cold War.

 

So the question arises, shall we discuss the thinking of Karl Marx and how it applies to the Progressive Movement or shall we discuss phony issues about Greek philosophers and the Cold War.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 22,417
Registered: ‎03-04-2009

Re: The Progressive Movement

Message 30 of 396 (427 Views)

As previously posted, if you ever decide you would like to engage in a serious discussion on this topic, I will be here. If you have no interest in serious discussion, I will understand your lack of posting.

 Oh,  I guess I could say the same thing about the posts in this thread. but I am simply doing what it has been done forever, confusing, diverting and getting the merry go round continuing.