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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,709
Registered: ‎11-09-2011

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

[ Edited ]
Message 1 of 27 (52 Views)

Great observation - GOPers insist the solution to poverty and income inequality is for the poor to work harder -

 

Arbeit Macht Frei!

The new GOPer go-to bumpersticker for explaining why they won't do anything for the 99%. We don't Arbeit enough to be Frei.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

Message 2 of 27 (66 Views)

I think this particular thread is played out.  Once more Gail1 and byrondennis chose not to candidly address the 'concept' I proposed for consideration.   

 

There are reasons this sort of thing happens.  One either/or set of reasons could be because they could not grasp what that concept meant OR would not address what what that concept meant. That's  set #1.  Other sets are possible. In my opinion set #1 is the most probable. 

 

Assuming they fully understood 'the concept' [not 'my concept' as was deliberately mis-represented], their responses are disingenuous.  The apparent intent being to 'sell' an alternative viewpoint, not ascertain the accuracy and applicability of the one ostensibly under discussion.

 

But...I guess I've said that before. Once should be enough for adults. 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,709
Registered: ‎11-09-2011

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

Message 3 of 27 (91 Views)

Olderscout66 wrote:

Republicans are out to cut taxes for the very rich and make the 99% totally dependant on their employer for healthcare by eliminating the individual mandate.

 

The simple fact is that if EVERYONE had to have insurance EVERYONE could afford it. that's the bottom line explaining why Universal health care coverage WORKS in every industrialized Nation and Americans remain the only group that can lose everything because you or your kid gets sick.

 

As for WHY Americans pay $8,233/person or nearly twice as much for the 37th best system as the second highest cost Nations (Norway, 11th best, Netherlands #17 and Switzerland #20) and the average cost of the industrialized Nations is only $3,265 could be our absurd notions about living forever regardless of the cost.

 

HALF of all Americans' medical costs occure in the last year of life, and half of that happens in the final 30 days. IMHO, we can do more to make health care affordable by making Hospice a "best practice" standard instead of open heart surgery for  octagenarians and replace Senior Specials at Golden Coral with Senior Speicals at the Y and other exercise facilities. (altho perhaps we could have the Y distribute the Golden Coral discount tickets.....I do LOVE the buffets)


Just putting this out there again because Gail claimed I was saying Medicaid wasn't "low cost" for the users and wanted to make sure nobody thought I'd say something that foolish, or that we should somehow make retroactive payments for people who never signed up.

 

What I DID say is we need to get a more realistic view of how our lives will end, and STOP demanding kidney and heart transplants for septigenerians who haven't been to a gym since high school. First step will be to put some serious regulation on Hospice Care so people can have total confidence they will be spared suffering and not need to go broke to die. then we need to limit payments for hopeless cases - no more Terri Schiavo's relatives playing with her corpse for 15 YEARS while kids die for lack of care.

 

 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 5,681
Registered: ‎07-20-2010

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

Message 4 of 27 (96 Views)

byrondennis wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

Neither Gail's nor byrondennis' response dealt candidly with the 'concept' I proposed.  A true single payer system nullifies the necessity for any and all non-rational complexity in the health care system.


Assuming you are talking about my comment, chrono comment 7, I addressed your "concept" (how did single payer become "your concept?") totally and directly... with all kinds of details and specific statistics concerning Massachusetts.

 

"Your concept" has been looked at dozens of times by the almost totally left-wing legislature in the most liberal state in the country, a state that has had universal health care with no financial restrainsts on anyone for 40 years and where both health care and healthcare insurance is almost totally non-profit, by dozens of Harvard and similar eggheads. Based on this left-wing studies, "your concept" never gets out of the low-level committee to which it is shunted every other year of so by our almost totally left-wing legislature. So I draw the conclusion that almost everyone in the most liberal state in the country seems to think "your concept" is a bad idea.

 

Now that's just the persepctive from Massachusetts, as I wrote in chrono comment 7. But I understand just from reading that legislatures and voters in other far left states like California, Colorado, New York and Vermont have all also reached the same conclusion. Do you see a pattern here?


Yes there is a pattern here. We have health care for all when you add in ER care which is free to all. Just show up at the ER and you will be treated. Single payer insurance system with all covered will give you the lowest rates and that has been fact for years. It is what the rate setters use as a base for the rates they come up with for any group.The pattern here is we have to many people who do not understand the full subject trying to give what should happen to parts of it, and giving out bad information.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 991
Registered: ‎01-02-2012

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

[ Edited ]
Message 5 of 27 (121 Views)

umbarch64 wrote:

Neither Gail's nor byrondennis' response dealt candidly with the 'concept' I proposed.  A true single payer system nullifies the necessity for any and all non-rational complexity in the health care system.


Assuming you are talking about my comment, chrono comment 7, I addressed your "concept" (how did single payer become "your concept?") totally and directly... with all kinds of details and specific statistics concerning Massachusetts.

 

"Your concept" has been looked at dozens of times by the almost totally left-wing legislature in the most liberal state in the country, a state that has had universal health care with no financial restrainsts on anyone for 40 years and where both health care and healthcare insurance is almost totally non-profit, by dozens of Harvard and similar eggheads. Based on this left-wing studies, "your concept" never gets out of the low-level committee to which it is shunted every other year of so by our almost totally left-wing legislature. So I draw the conclusion that almost everyone in the most liberal state in the country seems to think "your concept" is a bad idea.

 

Now that's just the persepctive from Massachusetts, as I wrote in chrono comment 7. But I understand just from reading that legislatures and voters in other far left states like California, Colorado, New York and Vermont have all also reached the same conclusion. Do you see a pattern here?

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 5,681
Registered: ‎07-20-2010

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

Message 6 of 27 (124 Views)

patriciah559514 wrote:

john258 wrote:

GailL1 wrote:

@Olderscout66

 

You are WAY off topic - 

Medicaid is coverage of the MOST affordable type.  If eligible for Medicaid all they have to do is sign up for it and in a few states pay a very low co-pay for some services - 

 

Is it not important to them?

Do they think they might need to be covered?

Do they think they might be forced to buy, even greatly subsidized coverage?

What is their problem?

 

Why should we pay retroactively for their health cost when they haven't even bothered to sign up when they were eligible for Medicaid all along.

 

Please try to stay on topic -


We are already paying for their health care costs. Why is that so hard for you to understand? There is the ER care for all. Just go to the ER and you will be treated at no cost. Now there are Reb. like your old governor who would let them die in the Streets if he could, but he can not. Lets have medicare for all approach and the cost of total health care will go down as the ER care area will be reduced. You need to stop looking for articles that do not cover the entire system and placing them in here as fact. They are not. I see there are Hospitals (non profit) expanding using Sate an local funds. Who provides that money. State and local taxes. Our local hospital just went to solar power farm using local bond funds. Who bears the cost of bonds. Local taxes, and yes the locals approved that when they set up the bond fund. Learn the full system and be a real expert.


The fact is that insurance is based on pools. Or groups. Pools of people with various health conditions, in thise case.  

It is just how insurance works. 

 


You are correct and when everyone is in the pool you get the cheapest rates. That is what the ACA is trying to do. A single payer system will give you the best rates. The far right rep. do not understand that and we all pay for their lack of education with high medical costs.

Gold Conversationalist
Posts: 141
Registered: ‎09-16-2017

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

Message 7 of 27 (155 Views)

john258 wrote:

GailL1 wrote:

@Olderscout66

 

You are WAY off topic - 

Medicaid is coverage of the MOST affordable type.  If eligible for Medicaid all they have to do is sign up for it and in a few states pay a very low co-pay for some services - 

 

Is it not important to them?

Do they think they might need to be covered?

Do they think they might be forced to buy, even greatly subsidized coverage?

What is their problem?

 

Why should we pay retroactively for their health cost when they haven't even bothered to sign up when they were eligible for Medicaid all along.

 

Please try to stay on topic -


We are already paying for their health care costs. Why is that so hard for you to understand? There is the ER care for all. Just go to the ER and you will be treated at no cost. Now there are Reb. like your old governor who would let them die in the Streets if he could, but he can not. Lets have medicare for all approach and the cost of total health care will go down as the ER care area will be reduced. You need to stop looking for articles that do not cover the entire system and placing them in here as fact. They are not. I see there are Hospitals (non profit) expanding using Sate an local funds. Who provides that money. State and local taxes. Our local hospital just went to solar power farm using local bond funds. Who bears the cost of bonds. Local taxes, and yes the locals approved that when they set up the bond fund. Learn the full system and be a real expert.


The fact is that insurance is based on pools. Or groups. Pools of people with various health conditions, in thise case.  

It is just how insurance works. 

 

Gold Conversationalist
Posts: 141
Registered: ‎09-16-2017

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

Message 8 of 27 (159 Views)

umbarch64 wrote:

patriciah559514 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

I will re-read your post because I need to - to be sure I understand.

But I'd gently suggest using a different word than 'furnaces' just for our mutual sanity. 

I am not saying you had any intention to use a loaded concept/word.

Thank you!


Point taken patriciah.  I did not use the word to inflame.  I used the word to convey the idea that not extending adequate health care....that really is readily available... to those who need it, but cannot pay does much the same as those furnaces once did. 

 

I saw no need to 'candy-coat' reality in order to be genteel. 

 

Have you seen the apple commercial on CNN?  the one about the apple being an apple no matter who calls it something else....or what political persuasion does it?  It's a good one.


I get it. Even though my parents named me Patricia, I am really not one to lean on gentility. My point [& I meant it in the most gentle-strong-request-suggestion is based more on that this has not been an easy year for people who are ...well, you know the drill; and my second more sensitive point is my Daddy was born in Germany. With all this Bannonite crap, I like to be very careful. It feels so important to speak carefully as there are a lot of buzz words hidden in our conversation today.  I hope you understand. 

But, WOW, you are 100% correct!  

That is exactly what is being done. Elderly, handicapped, ...omg. EXACTLY the same thing They've just not gotten to the way they will sort the Jews/Gypsies for expedited processing.  

Remember - who was it? Kellyanne Conway or Sarah Huckabee Sanders - one of them said when the payments are cut off [to fund the top 1% tax cuts] Medicaid patients can get jobs?

You reminded me of the words on the sign on the front gate of Auschwitz:   "Arbeit Macht Frei".

They are freaking NAZI's.  

Okay, leave it furnace.  We need our minds grabbed. 

Sincere apologies and kudos to you!  Well done, you!

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

Message 9 of 27 (182 Views)

patriciah559514 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

I will re-read your post because I need to - to be sure I understand.

But I'd gently suggest using a different word than 'furnaces' just for our mutual sanity. 

I am not saying you had any intention to use a loaded concept/word.

Thank you!


Point taken patriciah.  I did not use the word to inflame.  I used the word to convey the idea that not extending adequate health care....that really is readily available... to those who need it, but cannot pay does much the same as those furnaces once did. 

 

I saw no need to 'candy-coat' reality in order to be genteel. 

 

Have you seen the apple commercial on CNN?  the one about the apple being an apple no matter who calls it something else....or what political persuasion does it?  It's a good one.

Gold Conversationalist
Posts: 141
Registered: ‎09-16-2017

Re: Medicaid Retroaction being rolled back in some states

Message 10 of 27 (193 Views)

umbarch64 wrote:

Neither Gail's nor byrondennis' response dealt candidly with the 'concept' I proposed.  A true single payer system nullifies the necessity for any and all non-rational complexity in the health care system. You simply will not need it.  Wrap your brain around the concept to start with and you may 'begin' to understand the ramifications.

 

Accept the concept as a goal and you will be able to devise the best possible system to accomplish that goal. The most important thing then is the extent of 'basic' health care and the most efficient way possible to provide it. Don't and you can't. It's that simple.

 

Unless and until you are willing to consign those who 'can't pay the freight' to the furnaces, someone will pay for ALL that, no matter what system is devised, single payer or not. That someone being the tax-payer. You can take advantage of a 'public insurance company', a co-op of sorts to spread the cost over the entire population or you can argue about who gets the shaft this time.  It ALL has to be paid for.  I singled out the 'for profit health care system' as a culprit driving up the cost, because that's exactly what it does.  

 

Don't accept that concept and you will forever mire yourself in pointless discussions about meaningless things that serve something other than the public interest.  Keep in mind that the immediate costs for failure of the health care system will not be fully known until generations from now.  Of course, that could be the very reason to indulge in this futile exercise.   

 

As has been said, IF no guaranteed health care system now exists,the social system picks up the tab for those who cannot pay....somehow.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's the tax-payer that funds that whole shebang and all it implies. That being the case, again correct me if I'm wrong, the cost for all the consequences that happen when that  system fails to function at utmost efficiency ends up on the tax-payers' tab too.

 

Complexity is the refuge of the disingenous demagogue spinning tales from behind a curtain of smoke.  Concept is everthing you need to know.  Agree on that, accept it and the rest can be accomplished....cooperation toward that end being the main requisite, you see.  Not money.


I will re-read your post because I need to - to be sure I understand.

But I'd gently suggest using a different word than 'furnaces' just for our mutual sanity. 

I am not saying you had any intention to use a loaded concept/word.

Thank you!