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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,686
Registered: ‎11-09-2011

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

Message 1 of 82 (152 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

oceanedge2 wrote:

rk - Charity is an individual thing, or a voluntary collective thing (a charitable organization) - but not a government mandated thing.

 

You have stated that the government and the private sector are two different animals.  I believe the Constitution was written with a "sacred" moral mandate at its core, for the benefit of all.

The private sector has no mandate morally other than what is extracted from the Constitution and imposed as our "United" body of laws.  Are you arguing with the morals of our founders just because exercising them will not always give you a return on your money? 


No, I am arguing that our Founders saw us as a collection of free individuals, not a collective. As such we each have individual moral responsibilities but we do not have collective moral responsibilities.

 

It has nothing to do with "return on your money" - it has to do with morality and, to me, morality is a personal, individual thing. We do stand before our Maker as a commune. We stand there individually.


So according to your logic, if I help elect, and remain highly supportive of a Government that enslaves its citizens, but I own no slaves, I'm Simon-Pure? How about a Government that invades and occupies other countries without provication, yet I personally receive none of the resources stolen from that country? Perhaps I'm a loyal member and financial supporter of a group that lynches our neighbors when they get uppity, but I decline to participate in the actual lynchings? Or how about I have the OPPORTUNITY to elect a Government that will feed the hungry, minister to the sick, and care for prisoners, but decline to do so and instead help elect a Government that cuts food stamps for children, ends health care for millions and vilifies convicts?

 

What Republicans cannot admit is at the time of Christ, Caesar was "the government" and today in America WE are "the government" and what the government we elect does is OUR responsibility as is what it does NOT do for "the least of these my brothers". Sorry GOPers, while your party has made a dogma out of evading responsibility for its actions and INactions, clever sophistry is NOT going to decieve our Lord.

 

Just to refresh your memory:

Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

I do not think there's any "escape clause" for creating a Government that will NOT do "for one of the least of these" in YOUR name, and in fact is dedicated to EXACTLY the behavior of those on HIS left (that's OUR RIGHT).

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 4,343
Registered: ‎01-24-2014

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

Message 2 of 82 (158 Views)

CENT--There is a difference, as you and I know, between calling ones self a Christian and actually being one.  Jesus said, "You are your brother's keeper."  To complain about helping others because a very small portion of one's hard earned money might be needed is not the mark of a Christian.  Now that person may be religious, BUT THAT RELIGION IS GREED AND SELFISHNESS.

Gee, I miss having a real President!!
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

Message 3 of 82 (164 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

Centristsin2010 wrote:

It's pathetic to see some Conservatives complain that less than $2.00 of their Federal taxes each year goes to support the sick, the disabled and the elderly.  It speaks volumes about their character, empathy and being an American.  I bet a few of them actually consider themselves "Christians".


Sorry Centrist....I really do think you got that last sentence more than just a little wrong.  It has been my experience that a whole bunch, if not most, of the folks you describe actually do consider themselves "Christians" and attend Church regularly....some even teach Sunday School.  I think that is 'right'....oops, should have said correct.


I believe those folks take on the personal responsibility for assisting those in need. It is the socialists (not Christians) who think it is their job to get the government to take someone else's money to deal with the need.


Yes, rk9152, there are some folks out there who do just that, AND they do it even though is is NOT their express duty to bear the burden all by themselves.  It is up to you and me and the peppermint tree to fix that.  And it cannot be done by isms that seek to gain advantage at the expense of anyone else or their isms.  C'mon...you can do it...at least I think you might be able to.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,673
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

Message 4 of 82 (169 Views)

@rk9152  Re Centrist-Chasky exchange.  I thought from our discussion about taxes etc., that any and all taxes got passed through to the consumer in the end.  If that's so, one would think that IF you take the consumer's [i.e. taxpayer's] side in all this, conservative abhorrence of taxes and most especially, tax increases didn't make any sense at all. I suppose it could extend to economic advantage when it came to actual competition for sale of product....but that would mean one or more of the consumers would end up on the short end of the stick.  Maybe a whole community...or State...or even Nation. 

 

Could it be that massaging the complexity of the issues ends up with someone other than the consumer achieving satisfaction?  Go ahead...take that one where you will....it is somewhat humorous to visualize.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,800
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

Message 5 of 82 (184 Views)

oceanedge2 wrote:

rk - Charity is an individual thing, or a voluntary collective thing (a charitable organization) - but not a government mandated thing.

 

You have stated that the government and the private sector are two different animals.  I believe the Constitution was written with a "sacred" moral mandate at its core, for the benefit of all.

The private sector has no mandate morally other than what is extracted from the Constitution and imposed as our "United" body of laws.  Are you arguing with the morals of our founders just because exercising them will not always give you a return on your money? 


No, I am arguing that our Founders saw us as a collection of free individuals, not a collective. As such we each have individual moral responsibilities but we do not have collective moral responsibilities.

 

It has nothing to do with "return on your money" - it has to do with morality and, to me, morality is a personal, individual thing. We do stand before our Maker as a commune. We stand there individually.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,444
Registered: ‎05-08-2015

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

Message 6 of 82 (194 Views)

rk - Charity is an individual thing, or a voluntary collective thing (a charitable organization) - but not a government mandated thing.

 

You have stated that the government and the private sector are two different animals.  I believe the Constitution was written with a "sacred" moral mandate at its core, for the benefit of all.

The private sector has no mandate morally other than what is extracted from the Constitution and imposed as our "United" body of laws.  Are you arguing with the morals of our founders just because exercising them will not always give you a return on your money? 

Highlighted
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,800
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

Message 7 of 82 (195 Views)

alferdpacker wrote:

Well considering that there are far more than twice as many church-going conservative white males currently serving prison terms for sex crimes against children than liberal males and females combined...

One might consider it a tribute to what more than half of Republicans/Repubicans are - way deep inside...

 


Please help me understand how that relates to "Yes, "do onto others", not, "Have the government take care of it". It is a fairly straight forward concept. I cannot understand the problems some are having grasping it". I can't quite see anything about Conservatives, churchgoing, Liberals, or sex crimes in the concept of "do unto others".

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,362
Registered: ‎07-11-2013

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

[ Edited ]
Message 8 of 82 (219 Views)

Well considering that there are far more than twice as many church-going conservative white males currently serving prison terms for sex crimes against children than liberal males and females combined...

One might consider it a tribute to what more than half of Republicans/Repubicans are - way deep inside...

 

Have pity for Melania - she wakes up with a jerk every morning
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,800
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

Message 9 of 82 (223 Views)

alferdpacker wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Richva wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

I believe those folks take on the personal responsibility for assisting those in need. It is the socialists (not Christians) who think it is their job to get the government to take someone else's money to deal with the need.


One of the basic purposes of government is to protect those weaker members of society.  Which "folks" are you suggesting step up to take on your personal responsibility for you?


Obviously, decent people, Christian or not.

 

Where did you get that "basic purpose" from? I have seen "From each......to each...." nowhere in the Constitution. That is in a different document.


There's another document - the Christian New Testament - that contains the clear and unambiguous instruction to - "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" - words said by a man named "Jesus"...

Currently, Repubican politicians, - and the content of some Repubican/Conservative posts here have been advocating in favor of having their Repubican led "government" doing the opposite of that Christian mandate - that says lots about the moral quality of Repubicans holding office - and even more about who actually is and who is not a for real practicing Christian...

Answer - definitely not #45 and most of his followers/supporters.


Yes, "do onto others", not, "Have the government take care of it". It is a fairly straight forward concept. I cannot understand the problems some are having grasping it.

 

BTW what are "Repubicans" - a misspelling or another cutsey term?

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 21,494
Registered: ‎06-09-2010

Re: MEALS ON WHEELS RATTLED

Message 10 of 82 (243 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

And a few more things for Cent:

-Socialism is a an economic model embraced by some. Of course it is.  And individuals can self identify as a Socialist if they so choose.  Ill-informed people labeling those who disagree in nothing but an ad hominem attack.  Rather than hiding by "You insulted me" it would contribute much more to the discussion to be honest. If I was honest with those who attack others and label them to fit their own narrative, it would be against the TOS.  You complain daily about others using labels you prefer they didn't.  So why do you do the same behavior?  And to compare an economic model to "Nazi" or  "Fascist" is more dishonesty.  Actually, what's dishonest are those who distort what others post, just as you did here.  No one suggested "Nazi" or "Fascism" were economic models.  They are political ideologies, just as was posted.  Not sure why anyone would dishonestly distort what others post.  Actual quote was:

 

"Socialism is a political ideology of long standing and respected by many. So was Nazi Germany and Facism."

 

- It seems "Limblah" popped up again. That adds nothing to the discussion. Sure it does.  It lets other readers know where the garbage originated from.  He (whoever he is) is not posting. Neither is Trump but he's cited here quite often.  But thanks for asking....

 

-"From each.......to each......" is not a straw argument. it is at the base of this discussion.  Your wanting to distort what the Constitution means and what others post, certainly are "straw arguments".


"FAKE 45 #illegitimate" read a sign at the Woman's March in Washington DC, January 21, 2017.