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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,878
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Free Speech

Message 31 of 269 (132 Views)

ChasKy53 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

 


There were demonstrations opposed to the statues and there were demonstrations in favor of them. They are not the issue. The issue is violent attacks on such demonstrators.


Those (the White Supremacist KKK) that were demonstrating in favor of keeping the statues were the ones who committed the "violent attacks", killing one woman and injuring dozens. Let's not forget that.


The subject is the right to demonstrate. No one has defended the guy in the car. Bringing that up is - cats, crickets, look over there, strawman - or whatever you guys (generic) are using these days.

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,383
Registered: ‎07-11-2013

Re: Free Speech

Message 32 of 269 (129 Views)

ChasKy53 wrote:

erikm219989 wrote:

ChasKy53 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:


Klan hoods are illegal in much of the country - antifa masks should be treated the same.

 

"Whay" do I suppose people have such a reaction? - because victimology has become a major industry and often an excuse for bad behavior.

 

I am not aware of any "slave chasing" lately. So, let's stick to our contemporary context.


If you want Antifa masks made illegal talk to you state representatives or your federal ones.

 

'Whay"?  Should we all start pointing out your numerous misspellings Too?

 

"Stick to contemporary context"?  You instructing others how and what to post now?


If you want that, you can start by telling the present to Declare ANTIFA a terrorist organization.


Should the KKK also be declared as a terrorist organization?


What of neo-nazi group that the C'ville murderer marched with and was seen carrying one of their shields?

 

Shouldn't that group be declared a terroroist organization.

 

What?  

 

They disavowed him?  

 

Yeah sure - trump lies 70% of the time - there's no doubt whatsoever that they lie every bit as much...

 

 

Have pity for Melania - she wakes up with a jerk every morning
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,878
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Free Speech

Message 33 of 269 (97 Views)

ChasKy53 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Olderscout66 wrote:

What does support of Nazi's KKK and the altRight "fighting words" have to do with free speech? What the RW lunitic fringe is doing is NOT protected under the Constitution for much the same reason you don't get to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.


That is a decision to be made by the Courts - not posters here or masked, armed thugs in the streets.


That decision has been made by the courts.  'Hate speech' is too broad of a term to be prohibited. The following are not protected by the first amendment:

 

  • Obscenity
  • Fighting words
  • Defamation (including libel and slander)
  • Child pornography
  • Perjury
  • Blackmail
  • Incitement to imminent lawless action
  • True threats
  • Solicitations to commit crimes

 

(note incitement to imminent lawless action)

 

http://www.newseuminstitute.org/about/faq/which-types-of-speech-are-not-protected-by-the-first-amend...


Due to the ambiguity of the term, it is resolved on a case by case basis by the Courts and those decisions are enforced by the police. No where in that are masked, armed thugs in the street.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,878
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Free Speech

Message 34 of 269 (104 Views)

MIseker wrote:

 

So, an antifa mask terrorizes people the same way a Klan hood does? are ya skeerd?

 

So, laws about mask wearing do not mention "skeerd".



 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,878
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Free Speech

Message 35 of 269 (100 Views)

erikm219989 wrote:

ChasKy53 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

 



It seems impossible to get an answer from MIseker, so I'll ask the writers of the above - Cassandra Santiago and Tina Burnside, what are your thoughts on "What do we want, dead cop..."? is that hates speech so not covered by free speech? And how about those Klan hoods vs masks and bandannas?


Why do you go to such great lengths and use never ending examples in trying to defend a white supremacist hate group such as the KKK?


Maybe its because the poster who made that post is a white supremacist who probably doesn't belong in this AARP Community.


Do you really see a connection between, "What do we want, dead cops...." and white supremacy?

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 21,780
Registered: ‎11-07-2009

Re: Free Speech

[ Edited ]
Message 36 of 269 (87 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

 


There were demonstrations opposed to the statues and there were demonstrations in favor of them. They are not the issue. The issue is violent attacks on such demonstrators.


Those (the White Supremacist KKK) that were demonstrating in favor of keeping the statues were the ones who committed the "violent attacks", killing one woman and injuring dozens. Let's not forget that.


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,878
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Free Speech

Message 37 of 269 (76 Views)

Snoopy48 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

No bunk here, the KKK had a permit and those protesting the KKK had a permit also.

No one had a permit to attack anyone.


 


And you have spent weeks defending those who attacked because they had a permit.


I have defended no attack by anyone. If you can provide a quote to make your point, it would be helpful to your cause.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,878
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Free Speech

Message 38 of 269 (75 Views)

Snoopy48 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Olderscout66 wrote:

MIseker wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Olderscout66 wrote:

SCOTUS long ago established that not all speech is protected. "Fighting words", words that can reasonably be expected to provoke a violent responce, have NO protction under the 1st Amendment or any other part of the Constitution. People who have made a career spewing "fighting words" in PRIVATE venues can and should be barred from doing the same thing in a public one, especially a public school.


That is true, the courts have made such rulings - and that is where such decisions blame. Not in the hands of the masked, armed street mobs or the "that hurts my feelings" mindset. If it hurts your feelings, don't listen.


sounds like you would have been a royalist during the Revolution and soon woud have had to move to Canada. WOuldnt have been able to stand that mob action. 


A "mob" is a group bent on violating the law. Once a Constitutional issue has been decided, it is the right of all Americans to make use of the decision, in this case to prevent "fighting words" from disrupting their lives.

 

The anti-fascists were simply acting to protect their RIGHT to be free from the violence that flows from the altRight and KKK hate speech and their history of formenting violent confrontation.

 

the RWers here confuse "group of concerned citizens" lawfully acting to prevent fascists from inciting violence and the mob of facists that caused and committed the violence.


An honest look at the situation would show that the antifa were the ones that allowed for the violence. Had the weekend dress-up dudes been ignored, there would have been no violence.

 

The subject is not "history" it is the events of that day.


True, if the counter-protesters had not been there the poor 'weekend dress-up dudes' wouldn't have had anyone to assault. But as smart as many of them appear to be they would have had to resort to assaulting each other.

 

Gee, if the 'weekend dress-up dudes' had not been trying to force Charlottesville to keep statues that the people of Charlottesville wished to remove they would not have had to assault anyone.


There were demonstrations opposed to the statues and there were demonstrations in favor of them. They are not the issue. The issue is violent attacks on such demonstrators.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 21,780
Registered: ‎11-07-2009

Re: Free Speech

[ Edited ]
Message 39 of 269 (65 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

Olderscout66 wrote:

What does support of Nazi's KKK and the altRight "fighting words" have to do with free speech? What the RW lunitic fringe is doing is NOT protected under the Constitution for much the same reason you don't get to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.


That is a decision to be made by the Courts - not posters here or masked, armed thugs in the streets.


That decision has been made by the courts.  'Hate speech' is too broad of a term to be prohibited. The following are not protected by the first amendment:

 

  • Obscenity
  • Fighting words
  • Defamation (including libel and slander)
  • Child pornography
  • Perjury
  • Blackmail
  • Incitement to imminent lawless action
  • True threats
  • Solicitations to commit crimes

 

(note incitement to imminent lawless action)

 

http://www.newseuminstitute.org/about/faq/which-types-of-speech-are-not-protected-by-the-first-amend...


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,878
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Free Speech

Message 40 of 269 (60 Views)

Olderscout66 wrote:

What does support of Nazi's KKK and the altRight "fighting words" have to do with free speech? What the RW lunitic fringe is doing is NOT protected under the Constitution for much the same reason you don't get to yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.


That is a decision to be made by the Courts - not posters here or masked, armed thugs in the streets.