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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 21,645
Registered: ‎11-07-2009

Re: Communism

Message 41 of 104 (78 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

ChasKy53 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

ChasKy53 wrote:

 


How is it an insult to point out (very accurately) that a poster  "continues to label  any cooperative economic effort as Marxism which wither shows a profound ignorance or a blatant disregard of the facts." ????


1) If you have to ask, you are suffering the maladies described in that post;

2) Do you have no interest in the topic beyond something to fight about?


Any one who continually labels any cooperative economic effort as Marxism or "neo-Marxism" truly does display either ignorance or a blatant disregard for facts. This is simply factual and if someone takes offense, so be it.

It is, by definition. As you may recall we had a topic about Mandragon. it was a totally freely organized coop that offered a Marxist economy - but not society.

It is by your own definition. Any cooperative economic effort is not Marxism.

 

As far as the topic:  Communism has the same end result as unbridled and unregulated capitalism - - - - - - - - a very small percentage of society ends up with 90% or more of the total wealth and income.

You are confusing Stalinist Communism with Marxist Communism. Is that intentional or simply a case of being uninformed?

Do you prefer communism or a Democracy?

 

What is with your apparent obsession with Marxism and Communism?

It is a powerful force in the world and has been for over a century and a half. Certainly at least as worth discussing alt-right which you define as "Read your posts".

Reading many of your postings simply shows a lot about what the Alt-Right is about. Erroneously accusing others of being Marxist is an example of what the the Alt-Right does. Marxism seems to be a "powerful force" in you mind, but don't you prefer fascism instead?


 


 


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,631
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Communism

Message 42 of 104 (78 Views)

gruffstuff wrote:

Agreed. The Constitution can be changed via the amendment process - only.

 

Any thoughts on the viability of Communism as laid out by Marx?

 

The Constitution can be changed by the amendment process, but the rights of the people are not limited to the rights enumerated in the Constitution.

 

Is communism viable?

 

China will overtake the USA as the world's largest economy by 2018, so yes communism is viable.

 

Is it viable as laid out be Marx ?  Who cares?

 

The point being an economy can be capitalist and communist at the same time, or capitalist and socialist, or capitalist and sort of socialist, or any combination there of.

 

I think a more important issue is the ability of a government to address the issues that threaten it, or plague it, or hamper it, like the health and well being of it's population, it's debt, it's ability to perform and provide services, it's ability to feed itself, it's ability to defend itself, it's ability to provide health care, it's ability to shelter it's population and keep the population fed and warm.

 

Cold and hungry people are the stuff revolts are made of,  people who are ill can't work and provide for themselves, people who are ignorant can't function in the modern world.

 

So as a practical matter government has to provide all of those things, directly or indirectly, in order to survive as government. People need food, shelter, health care, and a education that is competitive or better with the rest of the world in order to do work and provide for themselves, and to support the government and it's functions.

 

Free market baloney is just that, baloney. 

 

 

 

 

 



gruffstuff wrote:

Agreed. The Constitution can be changed via the amendment process - only.

 

Any thoughts on the viability of Communism as laid out by Marx?

 

The Constitution can be changed by the amendment process, but the rights of the people are not limited to the rights enumerated in the Constitution.

 

Is communism viable?

 

China will overtake the USA as the world's largest economy by 2018, so yes communism is viable.

 

Is it viable as laid out be Marx ?  Who cares?

 

The point being an economy can be capitalist and communist at the same time, or capitalist and socialist, or capitalist and sort of socialist, or any combination there of.

 

I think a more important issue is the ability of a government to address the issues that threaten it, or plague it, or hamper it, like the health and well being of it's population, it's debt, it's ability to perform and provide services, it's ability to feed itself, it's ability to defend itself, it's ability to provide health care, it's ability to shelter it's population and keep the population fed and warm.

 

Cold and hungry people are the stuff revolts are made of,  people who are ill can't work and provide for themselves, people who are ignorant can't function in the modern world.

 

So as a practical matter government has to provide all of those things, directly or indirectly, in order to survive as government. People need food, shelter, health care, and a education that is competitive or better with the rest of the world in order to do work and provide for themselves, and to support the government and it's functions.

 

Free market baloney is just that, baloney. 

 

 

 Either an economy is based on Adam Smith or Karl Marx. Granted, some "smoothing" around the edges is possible but there is still a basic underlying principle involved - is the economy controlled by the State or by the "invisible hand"?

 

As to Marx - the economy was only one element of his theory. It laid out total control over the necessities and actions of the people by the State until the time came that the people were reeducated to naturally live in the communal environment and the State would disappear. I consider that totally impractical.

 

If free market is baloney - is it your desire to see a State controlled economy? If so, do you prefer the Fascist approach or the Communist form?

 

 


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,631
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Communism

Message 43 of 104 (63 Views)

nctarheel wrote:

rk9152 wrote:
 

And yet, that is the topic. 


And yet, Singapore was NEVER spun off by China.

 

A point that you clearly stated to be a fact.

 

But that figment of your imagination calls into question your thesis, your talking points, and your other "supposed" facts that you have used throughout the thread rendering the topic null and void.


Right you are - I was thinking of Shanghai. Now that we have dealt with my figment - back to Communism.....

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,631
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Communism

Message 44 of 104 (67 Views)

Richva wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Or, it could be because conservatives call anything they don't agree with "communism". Most of this is because they have no idea what they mean. 


Not so - look at post number one and you will find the fallacy of your thought.


I thought post number one was where I pointed out that people who use terms they can not define such as "communist", "socialist", and "marxist" lack a certain educational aura?   No?  Hmm, maybe another thread?


You obviously thought wrong since I wrote post #1.

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,306
Registered: ‎07-11-2013

Re: Communism

Message 45 of 104 (74 Views)


gruffstuff wrote:

Agreed. The Constitution can be changed via the amendment process - only.

 

Any thoughts on the viability of Communism as laid out by Marx?

 

The Constitution can be changed by the amendment process, but the rights of the people are not limited to the rights enumerated in the Constitution.

 

Is communism viable?

 

China will overtake the USA as the world's largest economy by 2018, so yes communism is viable.

 

Is it viable as laid out be Marx ?  Who cares?

 

The point being an economy can be capitalist and communist at the same time, or capitalist and socialist, or capitalist and sort of socialist, or any combination there of.

 

I think a more important issue is the ability of a government to address the issues that threaten it, or plague it, or hamper it, like the health and well being of it's population, it's debt, it's ability to perform and provide services, it's ability to feed itself, it's ability to defend itself, it's ability to provide health care, it's ability to shelter it's population and keep the population fed and warm.

 

Cold and hungry people are the stuff revolts are made of,  people who are ill can't work and provide for themselves, people who are ignorant can't function in the modern world.

 

So as a practical matter government has to provide all of those things, directly or indirectly, in order to survive as government. People need food, shelter, health care, and a education that is competitive or better with the rest of the world in order to do work and provide for themselves, and to support the government and it's functions.

 

Free market baloney is just that, baloney. 

 

 

 

 

 


Those who were sufficiently obtuse and credulous as to believe the McCarthy, Welch, Goldwater, Nixon, Reagan, and Bush liars - and now the trump traitor/liar - have always had their hair on fire and have been foaming at the mouth about some manner of specious manufactured and fabricated "threat"...

They have always been "full of it" - just like the not at all rational crackpots who believe that any kind of music and/or visual creation or manner of living that is not totally religious is "of the devil".

They have always been and still are more than a half bubble off plumb...

The world has always had nutcases being a problem.

 

 

Have pity for Melania - she wakes up with a jerk every morning
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 5,343
Registered: ‎02-16-2008

Re: Communism

Message 46 of 104 (76 Views)

Agreed. The Constitution can be changed via the amendment process - only.

 

Any thoughts on the viability of Communism as laid out by Marx?

 

The Constitution can be changed by the amendment process, but the rights of the people are not limited to the rights enumerated in the Constitution.

 

Is communism viable?

 

China will overtake the USA as the world's largest economy by 2018, so yes communism is viable.

 

Is it viable as laid out be Marx ?  Who cares?

 

The point being an economy can be capitalist and communist at the same time, or capitalist and socialist, or capitalist and sort of socialist, or any combination there of.

 

I think a more important issue is the ability of a government to address the issues that threaten it, or plague it, or hamper it, like the health and well being of it's population, it's debt, it's ability to perform and provide services, it's ability to feed itself, it's ability to defend itself, it's ability to provide health care, it's ability to shelter it's population and keep the population fed and warm.

 

Cold and hungry people are the stuff revolts are made of,  people who are ill can't work and provide for themselves, people who are ignorant can't function in the modern world.

 

So as a practical matter government has to provide all of those things, directly or indirectly, in order to survive as government. People need food, shelter, health care, and a education that is competitive or better with the rest of the world in order to do work and provide for themselves, and to support the government and it's functions.

 

Free market baloney is just that, baloney. 

 

 

 

 

 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 5,620
Registered: ‎05-16-2009

Re: Communism

Message 47 of 104 (102 Views)

rk9152 wrote:
 

And yet, that is the topic. 


And yet, Singapore was NEVER spun off by China.

 

A point that you clearly stated to be a fact.

 

But that figment of your imagination calls into question your thesis, your talking points, and your other "supposed" facts that you have used throughout the thread rendering the topic null and void.

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 12,554
Registered: ‎02-28-2008

Re: Communism

Message 48 of 104 (111 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

Or, it could be because conservatives call anything they don't agree with "communism". Most of this is because they have no idea what they mean. 


Not so - look at post number one and you will find the fallacy of your thought.


I thought post number one was where I pointed out that people who use terms they can not define such as "communist", "socialist", and "marxist" lack a certain educational aura?   No?  Hmm, maybe another thread?

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,631
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Communism

Message 49 of 104 (118 Views)

Richva wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

 

Marxism has been talked to death and my outlook hasn't changed. Same with communism.


If you don't want to talk about the topic - why are you posting?


I think they were trying to understand the point of the topic.  Democrats and liberals do not believe in the Communist system as demonstrated by Russia or any of the governments who once called themselves "communist".  Republicans and conservatives seem to embrace their philosophies while condemning the title. 

 

That is nonsense. No Conservative nor Republican embraces Communism. And, as I said right from the get-go - Stalinism is not Marxist Communism.

 

It just seems a recurring post with no definition and not a lot of point. Comment?

What is recurring?


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,631
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Communism

Message 50 of 104 (129 Views)

Olderscout66 wrote:

For 30 years, 1936 to 1966, America had achieved the American Dream. Despite occasional downticks, the economy boomed, but most important, the Middle Class grew astronomically and EVERY American who was willing and able to work had The Good Life.The biggest Government jobs program ever clawed us out of the Republican orchestrated Great Depression also won WWII.

 

The fuel for this social and economic bonfire was the tax code that made it impossible for the ones dividing the profits to keep it for themselves - if they tried, they'd just send it off to Washington. So the dividers of profits became the Uniters of society, linking wages to worker productivity so every year the rich still got richer, but everybody else got richer faster. To further stoke the boiler, we had Revenue Sharing that distributed billions to States that kept State and local taxes low and services high - plentiful and of excellent quality.

 

Then LBJ tried to buy support for the War he lied us into with huge taxcuts for the rich and death in the jungle for the poor. That long-standing connection between worker productivity and wages began to fray because the profit dividers could now keep a quarter of ever dollar they gave themselves instead of the nickle of the prior 30 years.

 

All during this time, AUTOMATION was helping to drive productivity, but the government financed demand prevented job loss because the War Machine was insatiable. In 1946 we began to add a form of "GLOBALIZATION" called Dixiefication because it moved jobs from the Unionized North to the south with its long tradition of slavery and share croppers, but still the average wages continued to race ahead.

 

Then Reagans Taxscam allowed the profit dividers to keep virtually ALL the profits they gave themselves, so they did and there was nothing left of workers or shareholders, Wages stagnated, investor ROI actually decreased slightly, and every time the Republicans gain power, THEY WANT TO DO IT AGAIN, just in case there's some reminent of the Middle class they havent robbed yet.

 

And people believe GOPers when they say emiminating more taxes on the rich will grow the economy and even admit it wall mean fewer services for everyone, like slashing Medicare and Medicaid and refusing to fix Social Security while turning the InterState into a TOLLROAD and our schools into profit centers.

 

Cannot fathom the madness that drives people to vote for Republicans because they dislike civil rights for black people and LGBT when the result is a lower standard of living for the 99%.


Have you checked the topic? It really isn't about LGBTQUE, Reagan, Republicans, 99%, Medicare, Medicaid, GOPers, taxes, SS, AUTOMATION. GLOBALIZATION, WWII, etc.

 

Do you have any thoughts on the topic?