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Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 12,554
Registered: ‎02-28-2008

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 51 of 61 (164 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

And who does the left look down on? Well, the productive, those who actually pay taxes, those to the right of Che Guevara, those who believe in the Constitution, those who believe in a free market.


The left does not look down on anyone. That is just a handy myth the conservatives keep trying to push forward. As far as the Constitution is concerned, you never see conservatives running a get-out-the-vote campaign.  You never see conservatives supporting the ACLU to preserve the civil rights of individuals.  It is always those on the left.  The conservatives  think the Constitution is about law and order.  It was created for human rights. 

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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,677
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 52 of 61 (168 Views)

Snoopy48 wrote:

One thing I have noticed throughout my life is that those on the right have to have some group to look down on. This was true when the right was Democratic as well as it is has been since the right moved to the Republican Party.

 

At some point in our history almost every possible group was put down so some could feel better about themselves - Chinese, Irish, German, Norweigen, Black, Communist, Muslim, etc. One group that always gets their support is the wealthy.

 

If LBJ wasn't the President when the Civil Rights Act was signed into law, I believe that the right would still be Democrats and the liberal left would be Republican. The law itself was a bipartisan agreement.

 

The liberals - be they Democratic or Republican - have historically been those who want to try to bring others up to their level instead of trying to keep some down to make themselves feel better.

 

Currently, the Parties are split between economic conservatives and societal conservatives. Of the last five Presidents the most fiscally conservative President was Clinton and the most fiscally liberal President was Reagan. The most societal conservative was GWBush and the most societal liberal was Obama.


And who does the left look down on? Well, the productive, those who actually pay taxes, those to the right of Che Guevara, those who believe in the Constitution, those who believe in a free market.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,677
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 53 of 61 (158 Views)

phyllisc6781 wrote:

@alferdpacker—Thanks AP—to the point, truthful, and funny! BAM!! You hit the trifecta on that one!!

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!


Very good - a "BAM!!" and 2 kudoes - how very pc of you.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 3,583
Registered: ‎12-17-2010

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 54 of 61 (177 Views)

One thing I have noticed throughout my life is that those on the right have to have some group to look down on. This was true when the right was Democratic as well as it is has been since the right moved to the Republican Party.

 

At some point in our history almost every possible group was put down so some could feel better about themselves - Chinese, Irish, German, Norweigen, Black, Communist, Muslim, etc. One group that always gets their support is the wealthy.

 

If LBJ wasn't the President when the Civil Rights Act was signed into law, I believe that the right would still be Democrats and the liberal left would be Republican. The law itself was a bipartisan agreement.

 

The liberals - be they Democratic or Republican - have historically been those who want to try to bring others up to their level instead of trying to keep some down to make themselves feel better.

 

Currently, the Parties are split between economic conservatives and societal conservatives. Of the last five Presidents the most fiscally conservative President was Clinton and the most fiscally liberal President was Reagan. The most societal conservative was GWBush and the most societal liberal was Obama.

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 8,175
Registered: ‎11-18-2009

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 55 of 61 (185 Views)

afisher wrote:

   Donald supporters are frantic, as none of their rhetoric is gaining traction, except among the weak-minded hanger's on of the Right.   Many of those losers are people who have never made a success of their own lives and need someone to blame (as long as it is not themselves).   So blaming a faceless "government" is the way that many of those men to get a tingle - boy did I just take it to "the man".   

    These losers will always be losers and their rhetorical whine and scapegoating in an attempt to make themselves appear to be winners.    Ask all the people in Indiana, who believed Donald when he said he would protect them and their Carrier jobs ( aka he was acting like Big Brother) - until the day after the election when he discarded them and went about filling the WH with Oligarchs- who have never been concerned about employees well-being.     

     The "argument" being made by the Right is that "the Corporation" is being so nice, they are delaying the actual  lay-offs until after the "holidays'.   

 

      They alt-right threaten with words...in the meantime the middle class is being devalued.    The donald supporters here must be hoping that Donald's swampgas will be watered down sufficiently that it will not affect them.    Past that, they don't give two hoots.   


yes. Carrier needs to be a topic backed by all the trumpettes posts lol

 

So it begins.
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 1,652
Registered: ‎02-12-2011

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 56 of 61 (185 Views)

communism has definitions...not all agree.  IF no one knows the meaning of what is said by anyone, including themselves, I don't see much point in discussion.  How about you?

 

Gold Conversationalist
Posts: 369
Registered: ‎09-26-2017

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 57 of 61 (154 Views)

@alferdpacker—Thanks AP—to the point, truthful, and funny! BAM!! You hit the trifecta on that one!!

 

Gee, I miss having a real president!

Treasured Social Butterfly
Posts: 25,320
Registered: ‎07-11-2013

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 58 of 61 (142 Views)

Thank you sincerely, rk9152.

 

Socio-political slapstick is always welcome.

 

 

Have pity for Melania - she wakes up with a jerk every morning
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 14,172
Registered: ‎03-20-2009

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 59 of 61 (147 Views)

   Donald supporters are frantic, as none of their rhetoric is gaining traction, except among the weak-minded hanger's on of the Right.   Many of those losers are people who have never made a success of their own lives and need someone to blame (as long as it is not themselves).   So blaming a faceless "government" is the way that many of those men to get a tingle - boy did I just take it to "the man".   

    These losers will always be losers and their rhetorical whine and scapegoating in an attempt to make themselves appear to be winners.    Ask all the people in Indiana, who believed Donald when he said he would protect them and their Carrier jobs ( aka he was acting like Big Brother) - until the day after the election when he discarded them and went about filling the WH with Oligarchs- who have never been concerned about employees well-being.     

     The "argument" being made by the Right is that "the Corporation" is being so nice, they are delaying the actual  lay-offs until after the "holidays'.   

 

      They alt-right threaten with words...in the meantime the middle class is being devalued.    The donald supporters here must be hoping that Donald's swampgas will be watered down sufficiently that it will not affect them.    Past that, they don't give two hoots.   

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 31,677
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: Communism is just a boogeyman of the alt right.

Message 60 of 61 (130 Views)

MIseker wrote:

 

Yes indeed there was a stalinist threat. But I also believe Truman, with Democrats and republicans twisted the threat to extreme capitalist purposes. 

 

 

parts of the link, but i recomend reading all of it Smiley Happy

 

In the United States, Communism has become a bad word over the decades. Although public opinion is most likely slightly less polarized than during the years of the Cold War, there is still a quite prevalent fear among conservatives of Socialist authoritarianism.

https://progressivespring.com/2014/09/12/conservative-propaganda-communist-boogeyman-myth/

 

Pretty good opinion piece laying out Stalinists, Trotskyites, marx, and that great big boogeyman created by capitalism.

 

 

The standard conservative line of thought goes something like this:

1) The United States is not a Communist country because Communists, being fundamentally opposed to capitalist domination of the world economy over the long term course of societal evolution, cannot be patriotic Americans.

2) Any and all individuals who share any connection to Communist ideology are, therefore, opposed to the American system, and, thus, seek an abrupt end to the “greatness” that is (and has been since the universe was created by the God of the bible some 6000 years ago) the United States.

3) To preserve all that was good about the “glorious” America of the past, citizens must renew the capitalism of the past and reject any and all philosophies which seek to challenge the status quo.

4) Both Communism and Socialism are the exact same thing, therefore any effort at raising the status of the working classes (which falls more generally under the umbrella of Socialism as this stage comes before Communism in the Marxist paradigm) in the United States amounts to a direct challenge to the American way of life.

There are several criticisms to be leveled at this type of thinking:

1) Socialism and Communism, although similar, are by no means the same thing.

2) The ways in which Communism is portrayed by American conservatives represent a gross misrepresentation of the key differences between Communism in theory and Communism in practice.

3) Although some liberals do, indeed, embrace Socialist (and even Communist) thought, the majority still exist within the established American system and, therefore, would receive no immediate benefit from the destruction of said system.

4) Even if, hypothetically, all Democrats were hardcore Communists, there is a clear-cut limit to the amount of political change that can be forced onto a system within any finite period of time, therefore one can conclude that this fact would, indeed, amount to a near irrelevancy.

5) Historically, especially during the Cold War, Democrats like John F. Kennedy represented some of the harshest critics of Communism as it existed in the Soviet Union and other places around the world, because of this one can conclude that criticism of Communism stems much less from ideology in itself, but from geopolitical struggle............

...

Communist thought spans a huge area of ideological framework. In many ways the ideas of Socialism factor in quite well to this philosophy. When Karl Marx formulated his ideas on “class struggle” he sought to instigate a process of “continual revolution,” wherein the working classes would eventually take control of the system which they compose.

 

{Culture change anyone? progress? or MAGA?}

 

The “higher purpose” of ideology, therefore,  consists in the organization of societies. A related example would be the rise of Nazism in Germany in the years following the First World War (1914-1918). This movement sought to exemplify the propagandized virtue of “German-ness.”

In much the same way “American-ness” has been propagandized by those within the establishment who seek as their goal the exploitation of the populace. This idea has then been used by propagandists in the past to brand any and all individuals opposed to the statist paradigm as enemies of the state system.

 

Many of the political changes implemented during and after the Russian revolution were extremely beneficial to huge sectors of the populace. It is most definitely true, however, that the system in place under the Tsars could have been managed in much more efficient ways. The Soviet system that took its place quickly became the embodiment of the establishment.

This can be connected in many ways to any number of revolutionary movements throughout history. Once the revolution is over, the establishment must crush dissent from without and within.

 

Joseph Stalin (1878-1953) became, in many ways, the personification of the Soviet Union. To those in the United States he would also later be seen as the definition of Communism. In reality, Stalin betrayed the Communist ideal, and, thus, is easily more representative of extreme authoritarian practice. It is important to remember that the end goal of Communism is a stateless society, the Soviet Union under Stalin was far from that.<<<< {will the real marxist please stand up}

 

Many theistic conservatives make the somewhat erroneous contention that all things which are “evil” come from those lifestyles, like those of the atheist and agnostic which do not necessarily affirm the existence of God. Necessarily Communism, which tends toward atheism, falls into much the same category.

 

Socialism as a philosophy aims to create a society based on cooperative action. It exists as a means to wrestle control of the means of production from those who, in the capitalist system, own the working classes in one way or another. Necessarily there are many different forms of socialist thought that run the gambit from totalitarianism to anarchism.{ why real lefties can't get elected..infighting.}

 

 

Those (mainly poorly informed conservatives) who claim that all liberals, or, by extension, all Democrats, are de-facto Socialists seem to have missed the point entirely. Regardless of the political posturing that goes on in the public realm of pundits, it is clear that to a great extent both Republicans and Democrats are highly pro-establishment.

The establishment thrives off of the capitalist system and to that end neither party (especially not Republicans) wishes to remove it any time soon. To that end president Obama has little impetus or ability to impose an imaginary “socialist hellscape,” wherein all private property is confiscated and the mansions of the wealthy are reduced to burning piles of rubble.

 

On one side, conservatives like Rick Santorum claim that Barack Obama is a bourgeois elitist. On the other individuals like Glenn Beck claim that he is an agent of proletarian (and somehow simultaneously Fascist) revolution. Well, which is it?

 

Pretty good opinion piece laying out Stalinists, Trotskyites, marx, and that great big boogeyman created by capitalism. which are also favored by Communists is akin to branding an individual as a hedonist for enjoying a glass of wine every once in awhile. This is the type of criticism that the Obama administration has undergone during its tenure.

 

Much more at link. Of course i only copied the bits I like. 

 

 Pretty good opinion piece laying out Stalinists, Trotskyites, marx, and that great big boogeyman created by capitalism.

 

How the heck did capitalism create all that??

 

 

Calling someone a Communist for advocating changes..

 

No one on these boards called their fellow posters Communists so how is that germane?