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Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,240
Registered: ‎11-07-2009

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 11 of 73 (95 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

pc6063 wrote:

Cent-so sad some feel all people are looking for is a free handout. I agree there is generational welfare. But, there are also people who just need help along the way. I will never understand the lack if empathy--lack of a heart it seems, in some.

i hope, truly, that should people like this ever need help, it takes a GOOD LONG TIME TO ARRIVE.  


True - it is a shame that we have evolved from a "help you neighbor" society to a "go take the money from those guys and spread it around, just leave me alone" society.


But yet you have nt once spoken negatively about the taking from the middle class and below and giving it to the upper 1%. That is exactly what happened between the 70's and today. Why  that?


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 20,240
Registered: ‎11-07-2009

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 12 of 73 (90 Views)

j868138h wrote:

And...

 

To begin with, if there was one flaw or error - omission made by our founders and the related documents it is this:  (Im paraphrasing the words of an instructor-professor at National War College, Dr. Alan Gropman here...While the founding documents go into great and specific detail about individual and States' rights and powers, the word or term "responsibility" is conspicuous by its absence.  Is that because the founders did not believe citizens had any responsibiliity toward their government?  Perhaps, but, far more likely that, at that time, individual responsibility toward family community, common interests was a "given" and was assumed to the p[oint that calling it out in the founding documents would likely have been considered redundant, unnecessary and possibly even insulting as a means of talking down to some of the citizens. Thus, today, we have those who believe they have all these "rights (many of which are nowhere mentioned in the founding documents) and that they have no responsibility toward their fellow man, government, obedience of tghe laws of the land, respect for authority, etc., etc.  Hence we have a population of snowflakes who believe the world owes them - ath schools, colleges and universities - and by extension their futur work places, and anywhere they happen to travel, visit, recreate, etc. they are entitled to "safe spaces" wherin they will never have to hear or entertain thoughts, words, utterances, opinions, or anything else that they - as individuals - might find "ofensive" and "hurtful" as they define it.

 

Not sure what happened to 1st Ammendment and freedom of speech in the context of "I may strongly disagree with what you say but will defend to the death your right to say it???"  1st Ammendment is there to protect what may be offensiv e speech so that we might have a dialogue and diversity of views. And no, I don't believe that allows someone to make threats of violence or cry fire in a crowded theater.  Having graduated college in the mid 70s and graduate school in DC in 1990 I saw the gradual and then accelerating suppression of non-liberal, Markxist thought begin, take hold and then accelerate until we are where we are today...sad, very sad.

 

And for those who wonder what I mean by Markxist or Socialist - I mean a Nation and governm,ent where the individual is in all things subservient to and useful only as a servant of the state with the individual's only purpose being to advance the interests of the State, as that State's leaadership defines it with no regard for individual rights, hopes, desires, etc. as those are unimportant compared to the role of being a faithful servant of the State.

 

And yet, this is the condition the snowflakes who have embraced their indoctrination in our universities and colleges, public and elite pprivate as well, want us to move toward so that our society can become "enlightened" and more "fair" to all. 

 

Not, I don't think, what Kennedy had in mind when he said "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask rather what you can do for your country."  And, yet, the Markxist perversion of that concept is where the Left has been dragging us lo these many years. Not really something to be proud of.  We have moved from a nation of self-sufficient rugged individualists to a nation of sheep looking for the government to be our shepherd and to care for us, all the while being led to slaughter like the lambs we have become...


First off, the "founding fathers" were very rich white men who decided that only land owners could vote (in other words only rich white men). Don't like that? Well, that's history. The Constitution was amended over the decades, thank God. Was it "Marxists" that did that? 

 

The only ones in government that want to lead people to slaughter are the Republicans, the tools of the 1%. They keep taking from the middle class and below and giving to the wealthiest. This has brought us to the largest income/wealth disparity this country has seen since the 1700's. Trump and present day Republicans represent more of this. The ones being "led to slaughter" are the ones blindly following them.

 

Republicans have had the majority in Congress for 19 of the past 23 years, so I think that blaming the left is more than ridiculous.

 

And .......... I suggest using spell check.

 

 


"The only thing man learns from history is man learns nothing from history"
Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 29,390
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 13 of 73 (92 Views)

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Mr. Kristof, you make a very good point. Jesus did command us to help our fellow man - and we certainly should.

Yet your posts clearly suggest otherwise.

 

On the other hand, those who follow the teachings of Karl Marx rather than Jesus command us to put in place a government that will seize the property of the productive and redistribute among the others.

Nobody is following the teachings of Karl Marx here as you fallaciously claim.

But what your Republicans are looking to do is "seize" what little the poor and middle class have left and give it to the most wealthy ..... more and more welfare for the already wealthy at the expense of ALL other Americans!

 

 

Slightly different concepts. 

And a gross false equivalency!


 One said that people have an obligation to help their fellow man. The other said that the government should control such actions. I'll leave it up to you as to whose philosophy you are following.


There is a limit on what one individual person can do to help all people as no one person has unlimited resources. And that is where government needs to step in .... to do for its citizens what they are unable to do by themselves.


It is interesting that individuals do not have the resources to do what is needed but the government does. I guess the bureaucrats in DC go down to Tidal Basin an pluck those dollars right of the money trees.


The government does have the resources .... and is responsible to do for its citizens what they cannot do for themselves.

 

Instead of your sarcastic "guess" .... how about: 

- Stop spending money on an already bloated military budget .... highest of all nations on earth and higher than the next 10 nations combined.

 

- Stop Republican budgets which annihilate safety nets for the poor, taxes the middle class to death and grants the already wealthy millions in tax cuts ...... I.E. Reverse Robin Hood .... Rob from all other Americans to give more money to the most wealthy.

 

- Stop corporate welfare (tax loopholes).


Try to focus. The subject is the teachings of Jesus, not Marx. And BTW,

A demand better directed to yourself as YOU are the person constantly introducing Marx into the teachings of Jesus.

 

the government does not "have it". The government must "take it" from some.

Well then the Republican government should stop "taking it" from the poor and middle class to give the wealthy more money!


 It would help if you could provide quotes from Him about the government taking from the 47% that pays no taxes.


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 29,390
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 14 of 73 (81 Views)

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

My error. I thought I had seen a constant attack on the 1%ers here. I wonder where I got that idea. 

Perhaps from listening to RW extremist media.

Do you really consider posts here to be "RW extremist media".

Your post could be .... as I clearly stated in my answer to your "wondering where".

Those attacks are common here.

You're conflating "attacks" with facts.

 

 

That one comment indicates an interest in fighting, not discussing.

Actually, your comment "on the 1%ers here" followed by an invitation to attack that comment  "indicated an interest in fighting".

Is it your point that the 1%ers are not a constant target here?

It's the constant demand by the RW to give the 1%ers more money that is the target here.

 

It would be useful if you could provide quotes from Jesus about the government taking the money from the successful.


 


 


 


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 29,390
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 15 of 73 (73 Views)

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

alferdpacker wrote:

Paul Ryan is not now and has not been the kind of practicing Christian whose life, actions, and speech is guided by the words of Jesus - rather his life is guided by the words, desires and unreported "influence" of dishonest Repubican/Conservative politicians - for the last fifteen years - ever since he prostituted himself to the Repubican Party.


Back to the basics - do you suppose the teachings of Jesus instructed us to help our fellow man individually or to elect politicians to practice Marxism?


The teachings of Jesus instructed us to help our fellow man in ANY capacity .... individually or in government .... and

NOTHING to do with Marxism as you fallaciously introduced.


Could you offer a quote to make your point of collective responsibility vs individual responsibility?

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 29,390
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 16 of 73 (73 Views)

alferdpacker wrote:

 


rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

umbarch64 wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Mr. Kristof, you make a very good point. Jesus did command us to help our fellow man - and we certainly should.

 

On the other hand, those who follow the teachings of Karl Marx rather than Jesus command us to put in place a government that will seize the property of the productive and redistribute among the others.

 

Slightly different concepts. 


Somebody once claimed that Jesus was the first communist....I think that remark was in regard to the rich man entering Heaven.  You may be on shaky ground if you claim Marx and Jesus are on separate ends of the ethical spectrum on everything.


Not so. Jesus spoke of the responsibilities of the individual. Marx spoke of the power of the State.


I understand the distinction you make..that distinction is not completed.   I do not defend Marx, but when he spoke of the State he spoke of it as a necessay step in the process toward a 'withering away of the state' when it was no longer necessary. 

 

At that point in 'good old Karl's' mind, he seemed to feel that mankind would somehow have achieved an altruistic mind-set so widespread that the state would no longer be needed for man's governance....man would have achieved such a level of 'goodness' you see, you might even call it, let's see....a 'state of grace'.  Hmmmm? 

 

Stay objective about this stuff, please.  It really does help with this 'divisivness' crap.


I believe that the "divisiveness crap" stems from people trying to take the thinking of Marx and attribute them to Jesus. I am quite willing to have a lively discussion with fans of Marx about his thinking, but let's not confuse the issue with the teachings of Jesus.


This discussion thread is about Jesus and Ryan ONLY!!

Bringing in Marx, Lenin and other persons/subject matter is OFF TOPIC.

 

If you are unable or, much more likely, calculatedly do not intend to remain on topic, go start your own original post subject so you can bandy about inaccurate and biased lies, distortions, untruths, and warped and twisted misconceptions about Marxism, Leninism, Communism, Socialism  so common to Repubicans.

 

Ryan is a fraud/liar/hypocrite who has prostituted himself to the unquestionably non-christian fraud that goes by the name of "Repubican Party"  

He's much more a servant of Satan than of God.

 

Come to think of it, deliberately trying to take the discussion off of the original topic of Jesus and Paul Ryan and attempting to divert and distort the discussion with pernicious and inane twaddle about Marx is much more in the service of Satan than it is in the service of God, isn't it?

 


No diversion, no distortion. Just clarifying the misinterpretation (intentional?) of the words of Jesus. He was assigning individual (not collective) responsibility.

 

No matter how many words, in how many colors, no matter how large, no matter how many insults - you cannot change that.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 29,390
Registered: ‎02-21-2014

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 17 of 73 (71 Views)

pc6063 wrote:

Rk-- so would you like to answer my question and tell me when is the last time you did even one of those things that I asked you about? 


What are those things? The last I saw was you were interested in pigs and Orwell.

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 4,732
Registered: ‎10-25-2011

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 18 of 73 (76 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

Mr. Kristof, you make a very good point. Jesus did command us to help our fellow man - and we certainly should.

Yet your posts clearly suggest otherwise.

 

On the other hand, those who follow the teachings of Karl Marx rather than Jesus command us to put in place a government that will seize the property of the productive and redistribute among the others.

Nobody is following the teachings of Karl Marx here as you fallaciously claim.

But what your Republicans are looking to do is "seize" what little the poor and middle class have left and give it to the most wealthy ..... more and more welfare for the already wealthy at the expense of ALL other Americans!

 

 

Slightly different concepts. 

And a gross false equivalency!


 One said that people have an obligation to help their fellow man. The other said that the government should control such actions. I'll leave it up to you as to whose philosophy you are following.


There is a limit on what one individual person can do to help all people as no one person has unlimited resources. And that is where government needs to step in .... to do for its citizens what they are unable to do by themselves.


It is interesting that individuals do not have the resources to do what is needed but the government does. I guess the bureaucrats in DC go down to Tidal Basin an pluck those dollars right of the money trees.


The government does have the resources .... and is responsible to do for its citizens what they cannot do for themselves.

 

Instead of your sarcastic "guess" .... how about: 

- Stop spending money on an already bloated military budget .... highest of all nations on earth and higher than the next 10 nations combined.

 

- Stop Republican budgets which annihilate safety nets for the poor, taxes the middle class to death and grants the already wealthy millions in tax cuts ...... I.E. Reverse Robin Hood .... Rob from all other Americans to give more money to the most wealthy.

 

- Stop corporate welfare (tax loopholes).


Try to focus. The subject is the teachings of Jesus, not Marx. And BTW,

A demand better directed to yourself as YOU are the person constantly introducing Marx into the teachings of Jesus.

 

the government does not "have it". The government must "take it" from some.

Well then the Republican government should stop "taking it" from the poor and middle class to give the wealthy more money!


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 4,732
Registered: ‎10-25-2011

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 19 of 73 (72 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

myexper wrote:

rk9152 wrote:

My error. I thought I had seen a constant attack on the 1%ers here. I wonder where I got that idea. 

Perhaps from listening to RW extremist media.

Do you really consider posts here to be "RW extremist media".

Your post could be .... as I clearly stated in my answer to your "wondering where".

Those attacks are common here.

You're conflating "attacks" with facts.

 

 

That one comment indicates an interest in fighting, not discussing.

Actually, your comment "on the 1%ers here" followed by an invitation to attack that comment  "indicated an interest in fighting".

Is it your point that the 1%ers are not a constant target here?

It's the constant demand by the RW to give the 1%ers more money that is the target here.

 


 


 


 

Valued Social Butterfly
Posts: 4,732
Registered: ‎10-25-2011

Re: AND JESUS SAID UNTO PAUL OF RYAN

Message 20 of 73 (76 Views)

rk9152 wrote:

alferdpacker wrote:

Paul Ryan is not now and has not been the kind of practicing Christian whose life, actions, and speech is guided by the words of Jesus - rather his life is guided by the words, desires and unreported "influence" of dishonest Repubican/Conservative politicians - for the last fifteen years - ever since he prostituted himself to the Repubican Party.


Back to the basics - do you suppose the teachings of Jesus instructed us to help our fellow man individually or to elect politicians to practice Marxism?


The teachings of Jesus instructed us to help our fellow man in ANY capacity .... individually or in government .... and

NOTHING to do with Marxism as you fallaciously introduced.